OnT - black valve covers

Moybin · 02-03-2005, 04:10 PM

Many thanks to JonyRR for a fabulous job of powdercoating my valve covers. My humble contribution to the project (besides cleaning the d@mned things) was Krylon Fusion satin black on the spark plug covers and then silver model airplane painting the characters.

OBSSSN refurbish is moving ahead. New seals in hand for transmission. Old input shaft pulled apart, am currently hand lapping the working surfaces of the constant speed gear and the drive dog between the gear and the spring pack. (I suspect this may be some of the 'wear' that accounts for the 'wears in' quality of shifting).

New input shaft is currently in Minnesota for plasma vapor deposition of CrN (chrome-nitride) to toughen and lubricate the splines. Chose CrN over TiN and variants of TiN as CrN builds up 2x as much material (about .0004"). Next will break down the other 2 shafts in the tranny and get all the bearing numbers. So far the only seal that is not exactly the same as the OEM is the final output seal. It has this weird backing ring. I'm sure the bearings are all stock items from an industrial bearing supplier. Seals were $6.02 vs. $49+ from BMW. What a ripoff.

When I have all the numbers I will post on for Forum use.

ps: I owe a word of apology to the dealer that said the input splines were stainless steel and I said NO. Well... the hub piece of the clutch plate appears to be stainless steel, though it is also magnetic. This would be a 400 series SS; good, tough stuff. The splines on the input shaft itself are clearly carbon steel.

acidburn · 02-03-2005, 04:26 PM

Totally excellent.
I know what im doing to the BCR, mind if i copy?
Excellent job.

roger albert · 02-03-2005, 06:41 PM

Hi Moybin.
Sounds cool.

Make sure you use the same class of bearing. I know a guy who 'improved' his transmission by spec'ing tighter tolerance bearings.
Naturally, the trans didn't last long, as the tight clearance killed lubrication. I.e. two bearings of identical nominal dimensions, but different classes, will have different clearances, each meant to allow proper location for a given viscosity of oil. BMW bearings are actually relatively crude/loose tolerance, just like most automotive manual transmissions. The oils that is thick enough to handle gearteeth loads won't get into the bearing interfaces of the 'higher-grade' (tighter tolearance) bearings, at least not in sufficient quantity.

You probably know all that, but I thought my last accquaintance who set out to improve his boxer transmission did too. He and I were both wrong, and he killed his trans (twice actually)

Great project overall.
Enjoy
Roger

Anton · 02-03-2005, 06:45 PM

Real nice job Mr. Moybin, keep us updated.

Moybin · 07:00 PM

roger albert:

I know what you are talking about, only thing is; our tranny's have sealed bearings! I was somewhat shocked when I popped the case open, used the hot air gun and got things pulled apart. The tranny oil only lubricates the gears, not the bearings! The bearings have nice little plastic seals and must be grease lubricated. (Like sealed wheel bearings).

The sealed bearings are at the ends of the input, intermediate and output shafts (6 total, 4 are the same size).

In fact, only the output shaft is submerged when the transmission is at rest. The input shaft is at the top and the intermediate shaft is in the middle; both are splash (flinger) lubricated by oil from the output shaft. There are oil galleries milled in the tranny housings, but these appear to be for keeping oil on the seals and nothing else.

After having seen the way the 2 upper shafts get lubricated I'm almost of a mind that going to a heavier gear oil makes more sense as the stuff will cling better. Maybe SAE 140 really is better than 75-90 in these boxes. Of course, I don't know what mine had in it when I bought it used. Flowed like 90 weight. Wear on the gears is textbook perfect. But there is some actual metal-to-metal wear on the constant speed gear and also some burnishing on the shifter cylinder where the small bearings track from gear to gear.

Then I went DOH and realized that this could also apply to the bearings under the intermediate gears. Doh, doh, doh. I'm not going to replace those. Let sleeping bearings lay...

JonyRR · 02-03-2005, 08:53 PM

so, exactly what class/spec IS the bearing tolerance or type for these; I'm familiar with what roger is talking about, and all it takes is knowing what the 'loosness factor' is for these (is it not something licke calss A b or c, something like that? (and moyb, I'm REALLY glad you like the color and sheen; I was sweating it big-time after the parts came out of the oven, as I used a brand-new bottle of powder from eastwood, and the bottle WAS SUPPOSED to be EXACTLY the same as what I bought/did MINE with, but mine are more dull...whew!) I was cussing a blue streak and contemplating another 8-hour-per strip job and then went screw it, send 'em, maybe he'll LIKE em *grin* man, I'm glad they're OK!!
my buddy has an original airhead PD, the yellow-and-black one, and his tranny lunched a bearing at 52K; the guy who did the rebuild said 'it had too-tight a bearing clearance' but wouldn't elaborate WHAT or WHERE it was 'too tight'. I guess its not such a bad thing these are non-unit construction as we can pull the tranny or motor apart without disturbing one or the other.

dannyleo · 02-03-2005, 11:21 PM

Wow Moybin! That looks really good. How about a pic of the whole bike from the side once you get them back on. I'd like to do mine like that too, but I'm wondering. I can pull 'em off myself, spray paint 'em with a high temp black paint and be riding the next day, OR I can pull 'em off, send 'em out, wait how many weeks till they return, etc. Do you really gain much with the powder coating over painting? Since I've scraped the raised areas a few times, it's not like they're perfect to begin with.

Skippy · 02-04-2005, 02:48 AM

Looking good.Like the old "4v" sparkplug covers better then the new ones.

bikerfish1100 · 02-04-2005, 03:43 AM

they were done from the factory in powder coat. appears to be pretty tough stuff, not real easy to remove. that's what's going black onto mine.

Joe · Joe's Garage

For you guys that have a few scrapes ...............These covers were scuffed at the lean angle but between the thickness of the powdercoat and the texture finish (Wrinkel) it just about hides everything. Leave the original finish on it's a grea base for powdercoating I have over three years on these.

Yeah I agree the older 4 Valve logo is a lot nicer then the new one.

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repoe3 · 02-04-2005, 05:48 AM

joe, how long did it take to get your covers done? you sent to to a place right?

repoe3

Joe · Joe's Garage

I brought them over to a patio furniture refinishing place that specialized in powder-coating ........picked them up in a few days.

A good idea is to search out other businesses that don't normally work in the motorcycle field .......there looking to expand and take in other work in there off season usually you can get things done faster and for less money. I use to bring my polishing needs to a antique restorer in his slow season. Look in the Yellow pages.

BTW He did 3 valve-covers for $85 and I did the 4 Valve logo myself.

If you have the means you can get a DIY kit from Eastwood like Jony did and you could color match other items on the bike as well....like small brackets,guards.

JonyRR · 02-04-2005, 08:32 AM

the only thing then is having the oven to fit it in; I looked at my eastwood catalog on the pot this morning; a walk-in oven big enough to do wheels and a complete frame is 9 grand...they could GIVE you the gun and all the powder for that tab; there are infrared lighst for this purpose also but even they are $800.00....sheesh. I'm going to try to find a sued commercial oven from a bakery to upgrade my capability to do larger parts.
hey Joe, still got that 1200 lower end?

JonyRR · 02-04-2005, 08:32 AM

read that as used...i'm a dyslexic typist

repoe3 · 02-04-2005, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe
I brought them over to a patio furniture refinishing place that specialized in powder-coating ........picked them up in a few days.

A good idea is to search out other businesses that don't normally work in the motorcycle field .......there looking to expand and take in other work in there off season usually you can get things done faster and for less money. I use to bring my polishing needs to a antique restorer in his slow season. Look in the Yellow pages.

BTW He did 3 valve-covers for $85 and I did the 4 Valve logo myself.

If you have the means you can get a DIY kit from Eastwood like Jony did and you could color match other items on the bike as well....like small brackets,guards.

if you wouldnt mind passing along their contact info...i might take the lazy route and see if they are interested in doing another set.

repoe3

JonyRR · 02-04-2005, 09:26 AM

or ya could ship 'em to me and I'll figure out a nominal -good-buddy-friend-of-the-board price. If I don't have to strip 'em, as Joe claims, it's not a big deal...maybe $40.00 and you pay the shipping. (and no, I probably won't make much off anybody, just a way to offset this kinda-spendy hobby).
Just a thought

dannyleo · 02-04-2005, 10:18 AM

I might take ya up on that deal too if I can. How far is CT from DC? Heck, might be able to ride the Sportster up there with Repoe's and my covers. On the other hand, these guys here are telling me that's 6-7 hours from DC, that's like a fate worse than death on a Sportster I would imagine!

Joe · Joe's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by repoe3
if you wouldnt mind passing along their contact info...i might take the lazy route and see if they are interested in doing another set.

repoe3

Here's the Web link if Jony has to use the oven for food

http://www.greenwichretrocoating.com/

It's been a few years but they might remember me I graduated HS with the owners wife. tell them Joe Cambo sent you.

repoe3 · 02-04-2005, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JonyRR
or ya could ship 'em to me and I'll figure out a nominal -good-buddy-friend-of-the-board price. If I don't have to strip 'em, as Joe claims, it's not a big deal...maybe $40.00 and you pay the shipping. (and no, I probably won't make much off anybody, just a way to offset this kinda-spendy hobby).
Just a thought

hmmmm, you dont mind doing the crinkle finish? i wouldn't mind that at all really. dannyleo and i could send them in the same box if he has them handy.

what kind of turn around are we talking? how much cleaning would i need to do, or would you handle that too...of course i would do my best to make them spiffy. i just didnt know if their was a solvent cleaner or something you do prior to powder coating.

hmmm...i like this idea.

repoe3

repoe3 · 02-04-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe
Here's the Web link if Jony has to use the oven for food

http://www.greenwichretrocoating.com/

It's been a few years but they might remember me I graduated HS with the owners wife. tell them Joe Cambo sent you.

thanks much. see what jony can do for timewise and maybe i can have this done in the next month or so as riding season is fast approaching.

repoe3