Faster Stopping???

[acidburn]

We can all go faster, on the street stopping sooner and under control may save our life.
Instead of seeing who's just simply faster maybe we should devise some street tasks that include stopping faster and not dumping it?

[tbsstunta]

Yeah its called not hitting the car that just pulled out on you.

[Dr. Curve]

With the new K12S its all taken care of. Never, no never, have there been brakes like it has on a motorcycle. Effortless straight line braking from triple digit with no problem...........time and time again. Good thing to pratice on a regular basis.

[roger albert]

Are you saying going slow is the K12S's strong point?

[acidburn]

its all relative, just like the sweat puddling in the small of yer 1st couzins back after ya give her a good one, they call that Relative Humidity.

[Rattus]

The linked braking and ABS III prompted me to go from my '98 S to my current '01 S (with ABS III). This was because of the better stopping performance. Well worth it IMHO. If the new R1200S has even improved braking and ABS, then I'd really consider it.

[RoundelRider]

Originally posted by Dr. Curve
With the new K12S its all taken care of. Never, no never, have there been brakes like it has on a motorcycle. Effortless straight line braking from triple digit with no problem...........time and time again. Good thing to pratice on a regular basis.

Blah blah....words words..............anyways......

FINALLY..........someone (Acid) thinks the way I do!!

Why go through all the trouble and expense of modifying these pigs to go fast when what ya really need are good brakes and handling, plus the ability to use it!

If I had to do it all over, Id install stainless lines (already done) and Ohlins, instead of the other "trinkets" that I hardly see any improvement from. Thats the first two things Ill modify in any vehicle........HP is no good if you cant harness it or stop it.

[Joe]

You can stop as fast as possible but if its not controllable to the nth its useless to me. How does a computer know what I'm trying to do every time ...............Lack of input = Lack of control

[on2wheels52]

Re these brakes, is there some objective numbers on their performance? The typical bike test has 60mph to 0 in under 150 feet or less, I see even a VTX1800 in the 120's. Or is it about subjective feel? Drum brakes didn't kill everyone. To me the important thing is being ready to pull the lever, whether it takes your pinkie or your whole hand. Reaction time is the killer.(choir preaching) Too many impacts where the brake lever leaves an imprint across the front of the rider's hand.

Jim

[bradzdotcom]

i think a big portion of stopping faster (quicker is a more appropriate term), is learning proper technique.
i ALWAYS ride with the index and middle fingers curled over the front brake lever. ALWAYS. it's saved me quite a few times.

i practice panic stops when i ride....both on the fwy and surface streets (make sure nobody's behind ya first).
and i practice "lockup", which you probably can't do with ABS: Dead stop, front brake on, start feeding out the clutch and gas.

After about a foot of forward movement, the bars will fight with you, the chassis gets ticked off....it's very awkward and clusmy as the bike squirms around....but that IS the feeling you often get towards the end of a panic brake, and i'ts a good feeling to get used to.

better braking for me also included doing the frisbee number with the stock rotors. i warped two sets before switching over to the wavey things. they don't stop better as much as they last and work longer. stainless brake lines are also nice to have, since the lines dont swell or fade and you have a more precise feel.

i think the fingers being already placed on the front brake, ready to go, is the most important thing. you don't lose all that time moving your hand, and you're less likely to mash that useless rear brake when things get hairy.

for me, the best panic stops are the ones where the rear wheel is lifted a couple of inches off the ground in the last few seconds of deceleration.

there are guys like Rapiddog who shy away from the front brake, and other guys who, i believe, put WAY too much faith into that ABS system. (you CAN stand it on it's nose with ABS).

i think good braking requires that you go out and scare yourself on a regular basis, with panic stops, and front wheel pushes. it beats the alternative of re-shaping the sheet metal on somebody's minivan.

in the old MSF advanced rider course, there used to be a braking contest during class. i was always surpried at how timid people are with the brakes...and how long it takes them to stop because they're afraid of jumping on them hard.
go out and try it. your bike probably stops way better than you think. finding out voluntarily, under controlled conditions, is a good way to discover that and hone the skill.

[wswartzwel]

Originally posted by bradzdotcom
i think a big portion of stopping faster (quicker is a more appropriate term), is learning proper technique.
i ALWAYS ride with the index and middle fingers curled over the front brake lever. ALWAYS. it's saved me quite a few times.

i practice panic stops when i ride....both on the fwy and surface streets (make sure nobody's behind ya first).
and i practice "lockup", which you probably can't do with ABS: Dead stop, front brake on, start feeding out the clutch and gas.

After about a foot of forward movement, the bars will fight with you, the chassis gets ticked off....it's very awkward and clusmy as the bike squirms around....but that IS the feeling you often get towards the end of a panic brake, and i'ts a good feeling to get used to.

better braking for me also included doing the frisbee number with the stock rotors. i warped two sets before switching over to the wavey things. they don't stop better as much as they last and work longer. stainless brake lines are also nice to have, since the lines dont swell or fade and you have a more precise feel.

i think the fingers being already placed on the front brake, ready to go, is the most important thing. you don't lose all that time moving your hand, and you're less likely to mash that useless rear brake when things get hairy.

for me, the best panic stops are the ones where the rear wheel is lifted a couple of inches off the ground in the last few seconds of deceleration.

there are guys like Rapiddog who shy away from the front brake, and other guys who, i believe, put WAY too much faith into that ABS system. (you CAN stand it on it's nose with ABS).

i think good braking requires that you go out and scare yourself on a regular basis, with panic stops, and front wheel pushes. it beats the alternative of re-shaping the sheet metal on somebody's minivan.

in the old MSF advanced rider course, there used to be a braking contest during class. i was always surpried at how timid people are with the brakes...and how long it takes them to stop because they're afraid of jumping on them hard.
go out and try it. your bike probably stops way better than you think. finding out voluntarily, under controlled conditions, is a good way to discover that and hone the skill.

Yup... what he said. practicing "crabwalking" your bike to a stop can be very beneficial. Had a gal pull out of a side street right in front of me... when she saw me she panicicked and stopped sideways in the middle of the road. brought it to a stop from 60mph inches from her door, flipped up my shield and said "good morning" Could have been a different ending... but without practice panic will beat you in most cases.

[acidburn]

all good stuff hear, starting this htread has yeilded what i was hopeful of.
First time i seariously did what Brad and Wartz are talking about, i mean seariously, getting the rear wheel up in the air a bit was at a track course in 04, its impressive what non ABS brakes wil do if used correctly, i am even more impressed with ABS, when thigns arnt just perfect for a test stoppy.

[tbsstunta]

While I don't doubt the benefits of ABS, I just don't see a noticible benefit to the servos up to 80 or 90mph.

[acidburn]

well having both, i beleive its cuts stopping time down further, once you get used to the servos, at least i find that its easier to modulate, less time spent worrying about lock up, and how far, consider colder hands, or maybe dazed on the way home after a long hot day, all the things that contribute to a less than ideal time, like when your practicing stops and feeling good.
CHP, reports that since they went over to ABS, there has not been one accident due to the inability to stop in time, i dont know what the preABS figures are, but i am told it was a high number.
If i am too error i want it to be on the safe side, i still think that BMW knows more about stopping a motorcycle in a safe and controlled fashion than i do. I am going to use the newer tools as they are offered, that is a big part of my decision on the K1200S w/ABS or equivalent.

[bradzdotcom]

i don't like abs. i know it works and all, i just don't like it. i'm not comfortable with giving up choices.
sometimes, rarely but sometimes, the whole idea IS to toss that thing on the ground by tucking it under.

eons ago we were testing a yamaha fj-something, one of the first with abs on it.
it was definitely hairball to go up over a hundred and just mash that front brake as hard as you could. it made all kinds of noises, pulses and gyrations, but it worked as advertised.
i just didn't like something "stuttering" and pulsing the way those did.

maybe they've smoothed out that blow-off system since then.
does anyone know what happens on these new abs systems when you grab a 100% handful while running at a reasonably crisp mph?

[acidburn]

The guys that seem to be anti ABS, are guys like Joey, i will never have the experience level, seat time, or any of the other fsactors that allow Joey to be the rider he is, under fire or not, my feeling is superior equipment, algorythms, computers etc, makes up for lack of hours, air time if you will. I am ap retty quick study, however there is no substitute for experience. My feeling is the guys that can defame ABS may never like it no matter what it does or how well, they are used to and embrace a different technology, the figures dont matter the sceinece becomes irrelevant. People with super high skill sets may , possibly, maybe be able to stop faster on a non ABS bike than a lesser skilled rider on the latest and greatest, maybe, but add a bit of time and skill to the newer rider with ABS, no way, i believe ABS, on the street is a safer bike than a same non ABS bike. Street riding as we all know is not track riding, the guys that i see defaming ABS tend to be super skilled track type guys and exracers, if Ex can apply, they just move to the street.
Its the old 45 auto single action vs the new proven and wholy better 40 call DA technologies model.

[acidburn]

BradBro, its barely perceptable now.
Thsi new gen is very very good, will never ever be prefect but has come along ways, we arnt talking Donkey bikes here, but these new hyper bikes, faster quicker, means they need better brakes, to stop faster, quicker, yes?

[wswartzwel]

Here is the epitome of safety
The airbag suit!!!




like most technology it starts out a little crude but as refinements are made things can become more liveable.... I have ridden some bikes that the ABS was lousy... the old Yamaha GTS1000 comes to mind.... but I have heard lots of rave eviews about the new K1200s brakes... so maybe technology is reaching that point where it is time to give ABS some more thought for street use.
But like others I hate to relinquish control to some microprocessor That can and will fail... Much like our own processors

[bradzdotcom]

there was a guy trying to sell those airbag vests at an "hoping house" event at my local dealer. it's based on the old dead man's switch, but was completely co2 based.
all i could think was "yea, right, just like your seat cushion can be used as a flotation device".
you'd be dead before it inflated, just like you'd never survive the plane crash anyway.

[acidburn]

A$S had some last year, i questioned the actual testing and it got quiet.