OT Trial by declaration... HELP!

fultwst · 10-18-2005, 10:51 AM

OK so I was Radar-ed by CHP while cruising along up in Angeles Nat'l Forrest. The CHP writes me up for no DOT rear blinkers and no plate light and 68 in a 55. He was going the other way and had to turn around and Chase after me to pull me over. He had to pass a couple of Harleys that were between him and I after he turned around. I saw him coming from about 1/2 mile back so I shut her down so he could not claim I was running. My question is this: Since the speedo on my S is malfunctioning, Is it possible the court will excuse the offense if I can show that the repair has been done? I would use the same BMW shop that services the CHP machines and ask that they certify the repair. I have never used the "Trial by Declaration" option before and would love to hear from someone who has. Also would a Lawyer help me with this process? I know lots of Lawyers specialize in Motorcycle injury but my case is sans injury. I'm not sure where to begin looking for this type of Legal help. Any advice from members with insight would be appreciated... ~P

Steve Carlton · 10-18-2005, 11:00 AM

I beat a ticket with "Trial By Written Declaration." It's a free shot. If you lose, you can go to Trial De Novo, the traditional deal. If the CHP wants to let the ticket slide, this is an easy way for him to do it. They're strongly encouraged to show up for all court trials.

A CHP's estimate of your speed is considered sufficient, as they are considered expert witnesses. Generally, the BMW speedo reads faster than actual; you'd need to opposite to help your case, and 13 mph is a lot.

This is the best resource, IMHO:

http://www.nolo.com/product.cfm/ObjectID/5049A39C-99F3-41FF-BA270821A98897B9/104/263/

tm1100s · 11:09 AM

More info.

http://www.ticketassassin.com

SergioK · 10-18-2005, 11:30 AM

Was was the CHP on an RTP or a crown vic??

I ask because a friend successfully argued and won his ticket by fighting the speedo calibration on the CHP's RTP.

fultwst · 10-18-2005, 11:38 AM

Thanks for the input guys. The CHP was on a BMW. He used a radar/Laser gun to determine speed, not his own speedo.

Raven · 10-18-2005, 11:50 AM

I can't believe he wrote you for the other crap!!

With all the poor drivers out there attempting to kill everyone in their path, this dipstick writes you for not having your plate lite up!!! What a waste!!

Good luck fighting the ticket!

SergioK · 10-18-2005, 12:50 PM

Wait a sec. I thought Lidar has to be used while stopped? Did he use Lidar or Radar? Radar (Ka band used by CHP) can be used stopped or while moving but you should supeona the radar calibration for that unit (although I've heard that CHP is doing a better job of replying to discovery requests).

bigscience · 10-18-2005, 12:56 PM

no plate lights? wow. that's worse than Virginia.

I do understand that California is a different country, but in Maryland I'd feel pretty good about getting off on the lights violations with only court costs if I had a repair order. For the speeding ticket itself I'd get a lawyer if you are really dead set against a conviction and want to lay out the money for the chance. I have a fairly successful lawyer here who tells me that challenging the calibrations is the best way to get the case dismissed ( I go to court again in Dec against a laser). if the cop was in a moving vehicle I think he got you on radar, since I think lasers have to be stationary to be aimed accurately. But in any event your lawyer (or maybe you if you're bold) will ask to see the calibrations for the cop's bike speedo, the radar gun he got you with AND the radar unit HIS RADAR GUN was calibrated against. if any of these certifications are out of date AND/OR the examining officer was not a master radar calibrator, you have a basis to throw the whole thing out.

it also helps if your record is clean, you're a student, war veteran etc. I'm not shy about bringing all that crap up (in so far as it applies) as mitigation against sanction. It gives the judge a 'reason' to be nice to you.

best of luck.

oh, one more thing- driving school. might not be worth it if it's your first ticket etc., but I got away with this little trick just last week at my MD MVA hearing: gave the judge my song, let the lawyer do his talking and then I presented teh court with my certificate for a drivers course I'd taken the weekend before. In light of the circumstances, etc., etc. and I got off with a scolding... the crafty bit is that the certificate was from TeamPro Motion at Summit Point where I took the Advanced Rider Training track day. same cost as boring MVA school but I spent it at the track. heh heh heh

Steve Carlton · 10-18-2005, 01:09 PM

If he used radar, your ticket should be checked as such. All kinds of tricks you can pull to fight radar. For one, you can subpoena the back of the CHP's ticket for his notes, and for the traffic survey study. If they don't provide the info, you're off the hook. It's all in that book, a worthwhile investment. Probably available at your local bookstores. Only the speeding ticket is a moving violation that will affect your insurance, I believe.

If your record is clear of other violations and traffic school for the last 18 months, you could consider traffic school. But you won't be able to do it again for 18 months, so you'll have to eat the next ticket if you don't fight it and win.

Rapid Dog · 10-18-2005, 01:20 PM

Sorry to hear that Paul...was that weekend before last? I passed him going as I was going down the mountain, picked him up on my V1 though...and lucky I was pokin' along at the time trying to sort out my suspders (again)...

I did the Trial by Declaration tickie before last, doin' 64 on Soledad Cyn (55mph). I took pictures and wrote about BMW speedos, included quotes from BMW forums, estimated speeds, etc, trying to prove that there was no way he could have got me on radar...yadda yadda.
End result? None. Pay the fine or else.

This CHP stuff is what's really puttin' a damper on my S fun.
My last tickie was commuting home with the sun diectly in my eyes and a line of angry commuters heading towards me.
Pay attention to the speed? Hell no! Was was watching for the next jerk to pull into my lane and pass the freight train...
Last guy in line was a CHP with his radar on...(pre-V1!)
70 in 1 55...on Soledad Cyn.

So forget about using your bike for what it was intended...you have to go the SPEED LIMIT now!!!

p.s. what kind of turnsignals do you have?

lemec · 10-18-2005, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigscience
no plate lights? wow. that's worse than Virginia.

What do you mean?

fultwst · 10-20-2005, 09:48 AM

Hey Rapid, My blinkers are the little bubble units that stick on with adhesive pad supplied with the lights. Lockhart Phillips stuff I think. They use a small bulb. I will slap on the stock pos assembally for the inspection and then switch to a led type blinker after that.....

smallj · 10-21-2005, 06:01 AM

When I first moved to Arlington VA a few years back, I got a ticket for making a right turn on red when there was a sign that stated no right turn on red from 800AM to 500PM. I'm from Indiana and had never seen a sign like that in my life much less that one.

I ended up racking up more tickets during the 18 months I lived in VA than in the 12 years I've been driving in Indiana.

What really pissed me off is the fact that I was in uniform. No respect whatsoever. I should have known, it was the last day of the month...

Bails · Bails's Garage

Most of the mobile radar units require only one vehicle in range of beam for accurate reading.I get copy of manual,in Australia, this can be achieved by F.O.I request,I then look for mis use by the police, don't follow operating proceedures then errors can occur, resonable doubt applies and case gets thrown.

Don Ro · 10-21-2005, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigscience

it also helps if your record is clean, you're a student, war veteran etc. I'm not shy about bringing all that crap up (in so far as it applies) as mitigation against sanction. It gives the judge a 'reason' to be nice to you.

As a war veteran, I'm intrigued by just how you would weave this fact into your campaign/plea.
Thanks.

BBaker_Biggs · 10-21-2005, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Ro
As a war veteran, I'm intrigued by just how you would weave this fact into your campaign/plea.
Thanks.

Same here. Thanks.

SergioK · 10-21-2005, 09:24 AM

'I just got back from the war and was on my way to see my lady?'

JonyRR · 10-21-2005, 02:15 PM

hmm....maybe 'I'm diluting my PTSD, earned as a result of exposure to combat, in a safe, sane way, your honor, by the feeling of bliss and peace I get by riding my motorcycle...far better, wouldn't you agree, your honor, than losing my remaining sanity and giving the newspaper a good article?'...or words to that effect.
I went to the sandbox the first time around, but it was over so fast I can't lay claim to the 'combat' part. I was a REMF, and glad to be so. (it's hard to fix an Apache fire control system in blowing sand..I really like hangers)

bigscience · 10-24-2005, 07:40 AM

hi guys, didn't mean to bail on the responses, was out of town for a few.

lemec,

virginia has a law and order thing going that I just can't deal with. Maryland is bad enough. But Virginia has things like five bucks for every mile over the limit, reckless driving for 20 over the limit, reckless for over 80 regardless of posted speed, and some of the most agressive state cops I've ever seen. drive the Dulles toll road- 100% chance of a radar trap or a state cops doing fly-by's, cruising at 90 to catch people doing 80, on the widest newest most expensive private road paid for with federal funds on the east coast. not to mention that VA goes out of the way to transfer points to your home state, and because their schedule is different you will ge screwed. for example, on a MD license in VA you get 6 points for a 75/55 (because the charge from VA is reckless) whereas the same infraction in Md would only be 3 points and simple speeding, not reckless. 'too fast for conditions'? ie. at the complete discression of the officer, no need for radar. yup, that's reckless driving too and 6 points. oh, and that whole constitutional violation thing about no radar detectors kind of irks me too. I even hold my breath driving rt 340 to Harpers Ferry.

do I sound like I have an axe to grind? kind of I do. the whole state offends the libertarian in me.

compare PA which- okay, it's a money grab- but at least if you're from out of state and you get a ticket and pay it without complaint they don't transfer points. fair enough.

Don, Biggs,
re. working being a vet into conversation with teh judge, it's simple: tell him (or the state prosecutor if you're in VA, or the federal prosecutor if you're on post). there is invariably a point at which you're asked if there is anything he should take into account before deciding your sentence (you've usually already made your plea by this point). this is where you drop all shame and beg, whine, mew and cry, - all tastefully and within reason mind you, and give the judge an excuse to see the better side of your record. this is the 'mitigation' bit lawyers talk about. the thing is this: you're gonna get a ticket- you've aready got it in fact- and you have little to loose by appealing to the 'human' side of the guy with your license in his/her hand.