That S wants to be ridden not strumd to?

It's been ridden, see the bugs and rain grime on the pipes. We don't do none of that there uneccessary wrenchin an fiddlin with cables & TPS adjustments here... No siree.. Just ridin, an pickin' :D

well, i wish i could say the thing is doing fine, but this morning gave cause for more concern. traffic was at a standstill and my already higher than nrmal idle creeped up to nearly 2k prm and then once we got moving, either the clutch got so hot working the traffic that is slipped so badly, i was wondering if i could get out of my own exhaust.

something i just noticed but didnt when i was checking it just yesterday, with the idle so high, the brass screws are just about all the way in. looks like i need to start from stratch, per peter parts suggestion and back the idle stop out, brass screws in, and twinmax it.

in over 55k mile of riding S's, i am stumped. again, this is just an at idle and just off idle issue, at speed, she is great.

repoe3

so i got to work and thought to check the throttle cable...left the lock nut loose but dont think that thing moved that much. but when i turned the throttle check it, it seemed to hang up. guess some new cables are in order as well as a bowden box or aftermarket splitter.

repoe3

just printed out the zero=zero article...guess that is where i am going to start to improve the current situation until the new bits arrive...or instead of doing it twice, i could just suck it up and ride the tuono for a few days. damn the luck...certainly could be worse. guess i am more worried about the clutch slippage than the cable issues.

repoe3

I've noticed on the S and and the RS , that when the lock nut is left lose, when trying to balance the throttle bodies it really makes it hard to get it right. That rpm's seem to jump, both up or down, making it hard to sync. Riding it probably really shook it up. Well if worst comes to worst, Wswartzel's just ridin and picken. Oh , I forgot ,none of that unneccesary wrenchin and fiddlin. Good luck,sounds like your on the right track though. If it makes you feel any better, I've been trying too figure out why I had a bad vibration with my S for the last year. When a guy from up north with a better set of eyes than mine , noticed that my rear rim was bent. Another pair of eyes may help you . Good luck

yeah, another set of eyes...when i worked with swartzy, he always squirted gas in my eyes to get me out of the way...perhaps that the problem.

repoe3

i'd hold off on the zero=zero bit for now. no sense getting into that when it is likely a mechanical issue.

scott, i agree, but i would like to know i can actually perform the task. as a basic plan, probably start pulling the bike apart and look at all the cables and bowden box. in fact i may pull it off completely. pick any parts that might need to be replaced. then start form scratch.

doing some serious readin' over this...and this jumped out at me. describes the way the bike is acting at idle. glad to see this isnt some bizare behaviour.

"Step 10. Reduce TPS in increments of 0.020 if idle exceeds 1100-1200 rpm After adjusting the right side throttle plate screw to get equal mercury columns, look at the rpm. Ideally, rpm is now 1100 to 1200. Some bikes will have an abnormally high idle; as high as 1800 rpm or more. This is most prevalent in GS and R models. To correct the high idle, return to Step 6 and place one lead of the digital volt meter (DVM) back on the red and white wire of the TPS and ground the other lead. DO NOT move the Bosch black TPS. Reset the left throttle plate screw (the left rear screw with lock nut that was difficult to adjust) and reduce the TPS voltage by 0.020 volts (from .370 to .350) by turning the throttle plate screw. Continue with the rest of the Steps in order after Step 6. If the idle is still too high, continue to reduce the TPS value by increments of 0.020 until the desired idle is reached.

Step 11. Reset throttle cable (left side) to .5 mm free play
Reset the left side throttle cable for about .5 mm of free play. Check this by twisting and releasing the throttle several times and then rechecking the free play."

With the BBS too far out, you might be heading into excessive leanness, as I earlier suggested esp. if there are other leaks allowing air in. Not bad to have them only a half turn out or barely trimming the butterfly opening. But multiturns doesn't sound right.

Scott's right, don't mess with zero=zero unless you need to because that is a foundation adjustment and not likely to be off. But the TPS might have been set erroneously which can screw up idling.

Some of those IBMWR instructions relate to bikes with the stupid cross-over throttle cables used in first models, not S. Instruction still sound except for those bits.

Easy to feel if cables are sticky (sometimes fraying starts inside a run) even without unhitching them. Hold each end or hold throttle and other end and see if one end is moving faster than the other. Cables are not prime weaknesses. If cables feel sticky or beat up, you can oil them or use graphite powder as a band-aid even though this isn't generally considered a good move long-term (since the internal anti-friction treatment would be corrupted).

Keep calm. The solution is near.

the BBS are nearly all the way in, thats for sure. i was wondering about that crossover cable thing...didnt think that was the case as all on the S. thanks for clarifying. but it resulte din a question...since i did adjust the idle stop (only on the right side) it would seem i need to check that first. and i have adjusted the TPS in the past. it would seem wise to check that, right? plan to grab a beer or glass of wine and strip the bike down and just start from scratch. i dont like the idea of lubing, would rather replace if it is in need of replacing. sorry to keep this one alive so long, but hard to communicate and/or picture some of what is said by others. if this was 3 years ago, i would have crapped myself when i read the DO NOT ADJUST IDLE STOP SCREW warning. now it was a minor skipped beat and then realization that, if it was there to adjust, then knowing the right way to do it is not a bad thing.

repoe3

Getting warmer. It may be a bit of fuss, but I would do the feeler gauge. You are safest when you can eyeball the butterfly gap and then, given your present concerns, you will be confident that closed means fully closed and open a crack for idle is the same on both sides. Also, you can TwinMax the TBs with both the air box tubes off although you will want to re-synch after restoring them. Be sure to have both BBS at say, 3/4 turn out.

If you didn't touch the left idle stop, there is no important need to do zero=zero. But you do want to TwinMax at idle with the BBSs at say, exactly 3/4 turn each, so as to set the right idle stop screw. In a sense, the left zero is recoverable (with the TPS showing zero volts, roughly) but the right should not be touched. Sorry... but no big deal.

Ultimately, you need to have balance at idle and the balance must track closely at all larger openings. In other words, you can get a false idle balance with the butterflies different but the difference camouflaged/compensated with the BBS different openings. This can be verified by riding around with your TwinMax.

None of the Ss had the stupid cross-over, I am pretty sure; all had a one-into-two box. These boxes do get sticky and/or wear after many years.

Getting closer.

i have read and re-read your post...but left cross-eyed. so dont touch the left since i didnt touch it already...but then dount touch the right?

how 'bout i try to explain what i am planning to do based on everyone's input:

-strip the bodywork off
-inspect cables, bowden box for operational defects/sticks/etc...if OK, then proceed with below...if not order replacement parts and then proceed with below:

-attacth DVM to check the TPS, for good measure
-back off the throttle cable adjusters on both sides
-attach twinmax (since the left was not touched) adjust the right idle stop screw to balance between them (with the BBS's out 1 turn each)
-if all goes well and a reasonable idle is reached...then tighten up the throttle cables on each side and then resync at 4k or so. again, syncing and running at speed has not been an issue and i have narrowed the stickler point right at 2800 rpm or so...i.e. that point of throttle pull. if new cables/bowden installed, this hopefully wont be an issue.
-make sure everything is tightened up and reassemble bike
-tidy up and test ride.

sound reasonable?

repoe3

Your girlie said to add some break time in there somewhere, for taking the dogs for a walk/bathroom break.

shes been forwarned of my pending hours in the garage and gave no dispute...besides, its her night to tend to the mutts ;)

swartzy, should i play the "deliverence" soundtrack to the bike, while i wrench...will that make it all better?

repoe3

Make sure you are drinking one of those Holiday Five packs of Heineken.

they are out of season...its cinco de mayo time...so mexicali beer it is :P

repoe3

All along we've been thinking the spark plugs have no tale to tell and that fuel delivery is OK. Switching injectors (or a quick visit to the cleaner guy) may be diagnostic.

You have to get the right butterfly to track the left one. Don't touch the left one, it prolly is OK. And as I've been saying, the left butterfly and TPS have to track in all kinds of ways and that starts with the left zero setting and then the right butterfly has to track the left butterfly. If the left butterfly is OK or not previously messed up, leave alone unless you want additional miseries.

Start by feeling how the cables are pulling (holding both ends simultaneously is a sensitive way of feeling cable behavior assuming you have minimal neurological damage arising from previously riding inferior bike marques) and check for odd pieces of rabbit caught in the throttle mechanism. Flip the butterflies. Snagging? Friction? If OK, move on. I'd eyeball the butterflies but maybe not essential to disassemble that far, dunno.

With the cables (throttle cables and start-enrichment/choke mechanism) not doing any pulling (confirm that there is maybe a mm of play or loosen them off, if in doubt), set BBS closely the same, say to 3/4 turn. Then TwinMax at idle, adjusting the right idle stop only. When TwinMaxing, end at the most sensitive setting because each scale division is one inch of Hg and you should aim for that level of balance. You read it here first.

If you can't quite get the engine running nice enough to synch with the steps so far, try moving both BBSs outwards or inwards the same exact amount and try the TwinMaxing again.

For comfort and verification, I'd use a wire feeler gauge on the butterflies because that will solidly confirm the situation that they are tracking together.

Put a dab of your favorite toenail polish on the idle stop and write on your garage wall, "Red Green says I will never ever touch that screw again unless I must."

You should not be touching the BBSs at any point heretofore (except as noted). You are trying to get the butterflies open the same amount. Next time you do a synch, you will be fine-tuning airflow using only the BBSs as per usual method.

Now you can tighten the throttle cables to equal slack on both sides. Then TwinMax out-of-gear at about 3000 rpm... then under load on the road, as I always recommend.

Getting closer.

boy if it isnt my bike...its my 'puter that wants to act up.

learned this evening that i get a variation in TPS readings whether i let the throttle close easily or letting it slam shut on its own. so is this resistance in the cables or is this the TPS wearing out?

i think i need to start palying with the left side idle stop..i can back the right side out so far to have a gap between the pulley tab and the stop screw and the idle will not drop any further.

nothign seems to change in operation whether at .400 or .350 volts at the TPS at idle.

so, i will now sit back, enjoy a drink and a good meal...and ride the aprilia until i feel like looking at the beemer again. kinda tired of the exercise, but i an relishing the educational experience.

repoe3

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/ultim...ons/icon14.gif :D