Nology

[phoenixtexoma]

To Jony et al: Look what Santa brought me today.

[JonyRR]

yep.
check the quality and intensity of spark before-and-after. Ipredict you'll be pleasantly surprised.
those brisk plugs you have, are they non-resistor?

[phoenixtexoma]

The Brisks are non-resistor, resistance substantially less than .5 ohms. Was gonna ask, can I unbolt the gas tank and just pull it back to install the wires, or is removal necessary? No big deal, just asking. Any other tips? Also, the wires are a beautiful red, great contrast with my silver BCP. I have a hunch that it will be love at first sight between the Nology wires and the Brisk plugs.

[bikerfish1100]

best source & price?

[phoenixtexoma]

Bikerfish: $80 total (including shipping) directly from Nology. Visual quality is superb. Kudos to Jony for the heads-up on Nology. Maybe you can find them cheaper elsewhere, don't know.

Nology Engineering
1945 S. Rancho Sante Fe Road
San Marcos, CA 92078
760-591-0888
www.nology.com
Jeff Klein, Sales

[phoenixtexoma]

Forgot: they come with a lifetime warranty. Jony is the Nology wiz. I'm just following his expertise.

[feds27]

http://rxreviews.wordpress.com/

AVOID: Sun Hotwires / Nology Hot Wires on the 8
Apparently, Nology Hotwires spark plug wires are causing CEL lights due to either:
- misfirings
- melted plugs
- shorted ignition coils

Sun Hotwires looks visually the same as the Nology, and is the OEM for Nology outside of the US - Sun (the maker of Hot Inazma) is widely popular in Asia as a ‘ricer’ brand.

Our advice - stay clear of Nology/Sun - better safe than sorry. Other brands such as RE Amemiya, FEED and Autoexe do not seem to have any probs and has been street proven - at least in Singapore it has.

————————————-
“CAPACITOR” EFFECT WIRES with grounded metal braiding over jacket

The most notable of exaggerated claims for ignition wires are made by Nology, a recent manufacturer of ignition wires promoted as “the only spark plug wires with built-in capacitor.” Nology’s “HotWires” (called “Plasma Leads” in the UK) consist of unsuppressed solid metal or spiral conductor ignition wires over which braided metal sleeves are partially fitted. The braided metal sleeves are grounded via straps formed from part of the braiding. Insulating covers are fitted over the braided metal sleeves. These wires are well constructed. For whatever reason, Nology specifies that non-resistor spark plugs need to be used with their “HotWires.” In a demonstration, the use of resistor plugs nullifies the visual effect of the brighter spark.

Ignition wires with grounded braided metal sleeves over the cable have come and gone all over the world for (at least) the last 30 years, and similar wires were used over 20 years ago by a few car makers to solve cross-firing problems on early fuel injected engines and RFI problems on fiberglass bodied cars — only to find other problems were created. The recent Circle Track Magazine (USA, May, 1996 issue) test showed Nology “HotWires” produced no additional horsepower (the test actually showed a 10 horsepower decrease when compared to stock carbon conductor wires).

The perceived effect a brighter spark, conducted by an ignition wire, encased or partially encased in a braided metal sleeve (shield) grounded to the engine, jumping across a huge free-air gap (which bears no relationship to the spark needed to fire the variable air/fuel mixture under pressure in a combustion chamber) is continually being re-discovered and cleverly demonstrated by marketers who convince themselves there’s monetary value in such a bright spark, and all sorts of wild, completely un-provable claims are made for this phenomena.

Like many in the past, Nology cleverly demonstrates a brighter free-air spark containing useless flash-over created by the crude “capacitor” (effect) of this style of wire. In reality, the bright spark has no more useful energy to fire a variable compressed air/fuel mixture than the clean spark you would see in a similar demonstration using any good carbon conductor wire. What is happening in such a demonstration is the coil output is being unnecessarily boosted to additionally supply spark energy that is induced (and wasted) into the grounded braided metal sleeve around the ignition wire’s jacket. To test the validity of this statement, ask the demonstrator to disconnect the ground strap and observe just how much energy is sparking to ground.

Claims by Nology of their “HotWires” creating sparks that are “300 times more powerful,” reaching temperatures of “100,000 to 150,000 degrees F” (more than enough to melt spark plug electrodes), spark durations of “4 billionths of a second” (spark duration is controlled by the ignition system itself) and currents of “1,000 amperes” magically evolving in “capacitors” allegedly “built-in” to the ignition wires are as ridiculous as the data and the depiction of sparks in photographs used in advertising material and the price asked for these wires! Most stock ignition primaries are regulated to 6 amperes and the most powerful race ignition to no more than 40 amperes at 12,000 RPM.

It is common knowledge amongst automotive electrical engineers that it is unwise to use ignition wires fitted with grounded braided metal sleeves fitted over ignition cable jackets on an automobile engine. This type of ignition wires forces its cable jackets to become an unsuitable dielectric for a crude capacitor (effect) between the conductor and the braided metal sleeves. While the wires function normally when first fitted, the cable jackets soon break down as a dielectric, and progressively more spark energy is induced from the conductors (though the cable jackets) into the grounded metal sleeves, causing the ignition coil to unnecessarily output more energy to fire both the spark plug gaps and the additional energy lost via the braided metal sleeves. Often this situation leads to ignition coil and control unit overload failures. It should be noted that it is dangerous to use these wires if not grounded to the engine, as the grounding straps will be alive with thousands of volts wanting to ground-out to anything (or body) nearby.

Unless you are prepared to accept poorly suppressed ignition wires that fail sooner than any other type of ignition wires and stretch your ignition system to the limit, and have an engine with no electronic management system and/or exhaust emission controls, it’s best not to be influenced by the exaggerated claims, and some vested-interest journalists’, resellers’ and installers’ perception an engine has more power after Nology wires are fitted. Often, after replacing deteriorated wires, any new ignition wires make an engine run better

[bikerfish1100]

hmm, i wouldn't quite call that a "ringing endorsement".

[phoenixtexoma]

Jony: You see this? My question is that CDI ignitions are a proven performer, but this gives you pause.

[phoenixtexoma]

http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/truth.htm

Well, I discovered that the negative review came from Magnecor, a competitor to Nology. Surfed the car sites (Honda in particular), saw mainly positive stuff, most of the worst was that people didn't notice any performance increase. Magnecor has issues of its own. Gonna install and go with my gut. As a comparison, if a newbie surfed BMW forums, he'd get the idea that a large number of the bikes have serious mechanical issues a la the spline problems. I know that CDI-type ignitions are a proven in performance engines.

[roger albert]

This is just uninformed gibberish. This type of plug wire and CDI have NOTHING to do with each other. Two separate issues.

The published rebuttal, regardless of source, is more or less accurate and valid, though clearly not written by a very technical guy (or literate one, for that matter) but it is sound-ish.

But whenever possible, I go with my gut too. No use basing things on fact. Much too messy.

[acidburn]

Do they ever talk in electrical terms.
I, E, W?
Any actual empirical data from even the mfg?
Jonny ping me PM or whatever , i want todiscuss these with you.
I know your a true beliver and all.
I want to understand a few things.
Acid

[roger albert]

Of course not. That crap is written by (and possibly designed by) marketers.

[acidburn]

Rog, what can we do to the SV ignition system, if anything?
I was looking for bolt on not another R&D project.
Brisk was the only thing that came to mind, if anything.

[roger albert]

I honestly don't know of anything for that app.
Otoh, I've never seen even radically built ones have
any trouble with the stock ignition whatsoever.

For sustained running at hi ambient temp, I drop a heat range.
Also, especially on 1st gen, be sure the factory crimps to the coils are tight (they, especially the front cyl one) do sometimes work a bit loose. I've only seen that two or three times.

Now, for a bit of balance. The Nology seem well put together and are as good of a replacement wire as any. Nothing wrong with them, other than unethical marketing hype. Same with Brisk and sugar pills.

Back on the SV: Are you experiencing any sort of misfire, and if so, under what conditions?

[acidburn]

Rarely at higher rpms,(above 6k) pump gas, stock plugs and wires form a 3500mi starter bike, on the 03. the valves have not been adjusted so that may be some of the less than perefect performasnce i experiened recently.
Will be out monday next week and payng closer attention at the higher rpms.
Considering an engine is on the drawing board, i dont want to get too crazy at this stage on tune ups.
What about coils, that would be a great place to pump up the spark if that even matters, i am not convinced it does once there is enough to start things going in the cylinder at a given compression?

[acidburn]

heres what i might do, nology wires and some brisk plugs, would like a quality coil also, nothing else and see what happens?
The wires and plugs are stock and original, bad recipe there is suspect.
I really like the idea of running unsupressed.

[acidburn]

O.k. ill play.
Just ordered wires, coils and plugs from Nology for the 03-650.
This should be interesting and way easier than trying to size a Super Cap.

[acidburn]

Warning from Nology.
I just talked to a tech fellow, he was very knowledgeable.
EMI, RFI, thats what i am talking about.
If you run nonresistor plugs you might see ECU problems.
I would be surprised from the plug end, however they are not warning just to hear themselves talk.
Dont forget to get the racers discount via Rog or me if you decide to try some of thier products.
ABW, Acid Bike Works,
ABW Racing
Not sure what Rog goes by.

Now all i need to do is decide on 113 oxygenated gas or Jonny's witchs brew for the 03-650, Jony, can you teach me to do home brew for a sv650?
We could do a custom map, before and after dyno runs.
Will the witchs brew drop dissolve my kevlar synth tank?
I have nitro and catalyst in stock.
Better than oxygentated race fuel??? Thats the big questiuon isnt it.
This is getting ineteresting.

[acidburn]

Cancelled the wires and coils order, this sure wont work on a SV, 4-5" to get to the plug, way toolong of a reach through the valve cover, well i tried.