R12S Really "Runs For The Trough" When Its Feeding Time! (Top End)
 

I know its getting old brothers.........but I simply can not get over the ease with which the new R12S will pull to a indicated 155 with almost no help at all from a flying start, slight wind, or exceptional traction on a smooth surface, who knows? All I can say, is that my totally stock R12S, with a full belly pan and different disc being it only non-BMW additions, will run up to a indicated low-mid 150's quickly, (190 tire) in about a 3/8 mile straight when starting at about 90 mph in 4th or 5th (gear makes little difference).

None of us should care.........after all......of what use is that type of stock top end from a air-cooled, push-rod, twin cylinder, running with its ears (cylinders) sticking out in the wind?

I'm wondering if my very careful break-in of the engine, which still has barely 6000 miles on it, is causing this type of extended useable HP into the upper RPM and peak torque ranges. Very interested to know what a good 6000 mile tune and test will offer. I'm on the track of "Hyper-Mist" injectors to change out with the already excellent stock ones. This seems to be a sure way to quicken the engine response even more. Also looking at combustion chamber coatings, and lighter valve train parts.

Are any of you other R12S brothers also noticing the ease with which these new bikes "run for the trough" when its feeding time?

These R12S BMW bikes can really look close at laying claim to being "the fastest top-end MPH, twin cylinder, air-cooled, push-rod valved, 1200-cc, box stock bikes ever produced by anyone.......ever!"

Who would have ever thought that we would see this day. The absolute best top-end bike in its entire class by miles.......not seconds.

Long live the last of the push-rod engine, air-cooled, twin cylinder, "S" bikes. R12S rules its class up top. Period.

I second that!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1186625388.gif


This should be a good thread....

On my roads out here I get alot of which BMW is that. I want to say, the one that just flew up your ass, but I don't. I just wait for the road to get bumpy and twisty and then procced with the power on and wait for them at the fork in the road,with my napkin. Thank you BMW I love my R1200S.

I hope someone does a good A-B on the hyper-mist vs the mega-mist injection.

Auf Deutch now: Mist.

funny...I thought IRISH Mist added to the combustion process...I know it does on occasional winter evenings.....

Agreed Roger. For now the new Concours 14 is the first bike to be released with these new type injectors but builders have been on to them for a while. They have gone to 12 75 micron orifice units instead of previous 10 60 micron units.

They call theirs "new Atomizing Injectors," AI for short.

The reason is two fold, better cylinder filling..........and a more effective and efficient burn equals better mileage to peak HP ratio.

Wow! Thats alot to comprehend. Im just glad it all works inside our S's and get's us up front!

Dr. Curve, your presence at Daytona would be great! Our pit area is alwaya open to you.

Cheers,

N8!

I'm hoping Bobby at BMW Atlanta has some more tickets for this October's event. Jim....you really need to come see this if you can. Daytona in the Pits is a wonderful place for folks like us. :cool:

just curious, what other bikes are being compared in this exact class? just the Buell?

....I don't even think the Buell is truly considered "in this class", George...


completely different animal... I am just - once again - baffled as to how easily people are misguided.... a 1200cc motorcycle (sportbike, I must add) that cost in excess of $16K and he's getting all wet about 155MPH...

...aside from the fact that the top end really does NOT matter in "real life"... any of the Japanese 750's or even 600's do this with ease at half the price and a quarter the problems, it seems...

..it's a nice bike for sure, and in the capable hands of someone like Nate ot BP, it is quite competitive, but look what bikes it is competing against, please...

It is a Sportbike and by NO MEANS a Superbike... was never intended to be and never will be. Yet, it succeeded to give the dear Dr. a reason to step onto the soap box over and over again... judging by the amount of attention he seeks with his posts, he must be very lonely... but then again, Dr. - I am sure your 1200S willingly listens and does not talk back, no matter how much BS you come up with!?

There is value for you money...

Dr: Why don't you pack that S up and go out to the BMW sponsored RWYB run at Bonneville coming up ? We have a member over at the Forums that is going to give it a try although I think she is going to run a K bike and it would be great to have another travel/event report posted here, particularly one with such a long history of banter. We would love to go ourselves, but are contracted to work that time period.

geo

So Ralf, what is the BS part of my post you are drawing reference to? I never say anything about comparitive value, the money things cost, or about "top end" being the only thing out there. I am just commenting on these same old BMW twins and how well they continue to do and improve. So tell me straight out...............What BS are you speaking of. Also, why would you think I am lonely because I love BMWs?...........indeed Ralf, its just that I have never been without one or more BMW twins in the past 37 years. So I like them a lot..........is that BS? I hear the Chinese and Koreans are both coming out with very fast 4-cylinder bikes that cost very little and go fast..........perhaps these are better for some people........but I am not one of them.

the BS is when you say its at the top of its class.... when its only in a class of one.
;)

ok.

If you want to get technical, then yes, BMW Oil/Hex heads ARE in a class of one.
The most similar engine configuration that comes close to our beemers, is the Moto Guzzi engine. The difference is that the BMW is not a pure Pushrod engine. Its almost a mid-cam, half pushrod engine. the Guzzi has 2 configurations. It has the 2 valve true pushrod engine, and it has the overhead cam 4 valve motor.
the 4 valve overhead cam motor will blow the S out of the water (see MGS01), but the new hex defintely has the lead on the old Guzzi 2 valve motor.
But again, you're comparing apples and oranges, since the beemer really isnt a full pushrod engine.

Having said all this, I agree that for us regular (and somewhat old- I'm 34) folks, its as fast as we need, and has the sophistication that we desire.
I guess its the difference between a Porsche C4, and a Mitsubishi Evo or Subaru WRX STi.
The performance you get for the money on the Rice Rockets, would almost make the C4 Obsolete, but the refinement, and maybe even brand prestige, keep the Porsche in the running. Again, mostly by old guys, who have money :)

Right on Doc!

Right on DR.

Ralf, don't hate on the good Dr. The man loves his bike. :D I am partial to mine as well. Jump back over to the HD chat, they love the negative talk over there.

Jim, I have told you before, I admire your passion... but that's about all there is to admire from my side... you frequently "talk" without facts to back it up... when asked to do so you either ignore or condescend, to distract from the fact that you are talking out of your A$$ and, you keep coming up with the same stuff, trying to neatly re-package it...

As you said yourself, it get's old... who really cares about top speed, quarter miles and such for a 1200S? ... the bike is not made for a drag strip and I seriously doubt many people use it for such...

George said it perfectly... "top of it's class" in a class of it's own... even though Arbi brings up some valid points, it still is not apples to apples... it's BS!

Arbi, if you already feel old at 34, what shall I do then LOL... I agree about the brand prestige and that IS important to some, it seems... that is ok, it does - after all - keep companies like BMW, Porsche and such in the business... being able to charge top dollar for their products... are they better than others - debatable, but more exclusive, YES!

So, for the folks that have nothing but material things to differentiate themselves from the masses - those are the tools, I guess...

I like my donkey... so much, that I am going to sell off some of my other bikes (including my Duc) because I can do what I want to do these days on the BMW... I think it's a great bike, but I am not diluted enough to think that ANY BMW is on top of ANYTHING...

I do have the money already, but I see no point yet in spending it for said things to prove anything... maybe if I get older???

...Brent, I don't HATE the Dr. - As a matter of fact, I think him and I would actually have a better level of communication in person... I am just stating my opinions... simple as that.

The 4-valve Guzzi engine in the MGS01 is no more OHC than the R1200 unit. It is high-cam, short pushrod, much like the BMW but with the cam drive above (between) the cylinders instead of beneath.

ORANGES at the bestest EVAR!!!

:)

12 hole injectors have been used for a while. CBR1000RR and my GSX-R1000 have them.

Significance of the actual number aside, I took Dr's comment to be more about the bike's willingness to run at elevated speeds (i.e. getting from around 100 on up to top end with reassuring ease and comfort) as the real point, and I have to agree. It's not quite as fast on top as my CBR, but it's a lot more fun to ride and is much more rarely seen - something I value more than another 10 or 15 miles per hour I'd never use. Whether you call it a sport bike or a super bike, doesn't matter to me - I'm still delighted with mine, and would buy another one if this one disappeared.

Also, in an effort to do "apples to apples", last time I looked at the beautiful and desireable MGS01, it was a whole bunch more money for not a whole bunch more performance - does it make up for that in rarity? Your mileage may vary, but it'd sure look nice sitting next to my LeMans.

12 holes, each with a 75 micron orifice? Are you sure Mal? Thanks for the tip. Do they have special combustion and piston top surface treatment as well. So hard to stay up with my glasses, much less all the recent tech.

I couldn't quote orifice size off the top of my head, but 12 hole injectors have been coming from the Japanese for a couple years now. They're invariably very small, well under 100microns.

As I recall my 97 Triumph T595 had 12 holes but I have no clue as to the micron size they were.

Philip

The point being that our BMW units do not make use of the "hyper mist" possible with the multihole injectors as compared to the traditional single hole or triple hole type. There should be a simple conversion for our R11 and R12 units............and I am sure I will find one soon if my time does not run out.

Same goes for ceramic valves and the much lighter seat pressure they allow. We can't just go order the valves, guides, and springs needed............but they are out there right now. Finding the supplier is the thing. Air cooled forever.

I admit I have to support the Doctor here. On my basically stock 99 (nonABS) the "top speed" just never shows up...flog it to 125........126.............127.................... .................................................. .................................................. ......................130......................... .................................................. .................................................. ..........................131..................... etc

This performance is of course well documented. To hit the "listed" top speed - indicated - even once would be nice.

I would have loved to have been on an R12S last month in Colorado...for obvious reasons. There really are areas where top end can be appreciated.

best,

Dave
99 R11S

Man, Im just glad our S has what it has! Enough to do lap times we have already proved to be just inside the top 20 in AMA FX! On pretty stock bikes.

Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread. lol

Carry on.

N8!

Dont be sorry, we're glad to hear your ready to step up to the plate. When will you have the bike? I'm assuming you wont be using a pretty stock or the Moto-St bike.

The most important part is that one is passionate about what you ride. We now what makes the S's special that it is not as common as all the major brands, it's a boxer twin, it looks unique and handles very well. I love my bike no matter what!

while touring cross country, loaded down, but slightly modded R1100S, it was nothing to see 145+ indicated. i would assume my heavy butt and all the added gear negated any performance benefit from the chip and exhaust. the tuono sees that at the end of the front straight at VIR south, with a better drive out of the oak tree turn, its more like 150+. point being, it has 35+ more HP at the rear wheel, as much or tad more torque AND weighs 100lbs. less than the R1100S. see the the huge difference needed to see top speed differences? doubt the R1100S would see that at the end of the uphill stretch and not so sure the R1200S would either.

wait, what were we talking about again?

as for these new motors, had the chance to ride one of the new R1200GS. i get it, really. these new motors really are a different machine. they spin up faster and seem to do it with ease. that isnt to say the R1100S protests at being spun up, its just that much different.

shame the R1200S is the ugliest thing since the R1200ST :P

repoe3

Would have to defer to your personal experience with the MGS01. I realize that paper stats can be misleading, but there does not appear to be a 'blow it out of the water' difference b/w the MGS01 and the R1200S.

Certainly, a closer match (both exclusivity, price, and specifications) would be between the R1200S HP and the MGS01. The advantage definitely appears to be with the Beemer (on paper, anyway).

Now for looks, I sure wish the Germans would put some Italians on the payroll.

And it becomes increasingly obvious that if one simply, absolutely, had to cross the USA in 24 hours flat the new R12S with a nine gallon tank might be just the endurance racer you needed. BMW won big in the races today. These first year R12S bike may become a instant classic. Too bad the engine the factory is running in the 24-hr endurance championship series is a advanced version of our public bikes. Still.............we will get the new engine soon enough.

Changing out mister's, rear drives and coated cylinder walls sure make me want to run out and buy the bestest, onlyist, bike in its class. With so many shortcomings the Dr. must tape his mouth shut to keep from laughing when he dumps so much praise on this stock german marvel.
.
And I'm sure these first year models will be collector editions just like his BCR he turned around and sold without putting any miles on it.
.
Just putting his trolling in perspective.

...oh Phil....get a hair cut. :D

Will the AI injectors call for more care in choosing the gas pump you pick for a fill-up? Will it have a problem dealing with moisture in the fuel? I have no doubts about the R1200 hex to wick up. Without the bags my dead R1200RT would accelerate from 60mph to 130mph on a simple one car pass.

However, I lost one of my probation officers last week during 180 mph (laser clocked) on a back road. Save it for the track where they inspect the surface before every run.

Roger, I'm not sure anyone else got the "mist" reference.
I did. ;-)

Mike

I don't get it but I want to. :D

Dr. I hope you'll never experience the top end of a GSXR 1000 than you will see what "hyper-mist" you mostly spout out...;)
Having said that 122hp is more than enough for spirited sport-touring on public roads...;)
Get the new Hayabusa.It's as ugly as the R1200ST but the top speed per $$$ quotient much higher than the one of the R1200S...:D

I luv these intellectual gas bags that are into competitive sharing. There certainly not into competitive riding.

You never see them out riding with any of the board members.