KX450 Transformation

[Ultra54]

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=mhdZiVM-ovI

[shreddr]

sign me up for that $hit! that looks beatchin!

[JonyRR]

I did that with a husky 390 and later a CR500 in a TZ rolling chassis back in the day.
Amazing how fast you can go on a track with something like that.

[anotheroldrider]

Although it's obviously aimed at an inexpensive race series, if they bring out a KTM kit, I'll pounce on one immediately for my 525SX based 6-speed 17" wheel etc etc hotrod street convert. It's hard to describe how much fun a 60-70 hp 250 lb street bike can be, and I'd love to get away from the supermoto styling.

[shreddr]

i don't know what constitutes "inexpensive" i heard those bikes were gonna be $15K, which Roland Sands considers to be "affordable" high performance racing. I know if i dropped $15K on one of those I would cry if i crashed it! you can buy a YZFR6 for half that, and have some serious ponies. the cost is no doubt tied up in a boatload of custom carved and molded parts. the better idea is for the big 4 manufacturers to offer it as a custom configuration. from what i can gather its a stock frame, swingarm, motor, suspension (although shortened), brakes, gas tank, airbox etc. Roland has added, plastic, rearsets, wheels, handlebars and exhausts. all these things would be cheap for the manufacturers to tool up, but why would they, when they are all offering hyper 600's and 750's for such bargains new, and you can probably pick up a 2 year old YZF 600 for $5000. Roland has created a cool art project, but unless the big 4 (and KTM) decide its a good idea, and make it affordable, then's its just interesting. Even with an established Supermoto series in its 3rd season only KTM and Aprillia have offered up stock items, how likely will it be for anybody to pony up for a custom chopper builders single cylinder road racing vision?

[anotheroldrider]

All things are relative, the new/complete Sands version at least comes with high component quality and doesn't need anything but set-up and gas. Obviously, it depends on how much you build or fab yourself, but I've got less than $7K in my KTM - it'll blow the gas cap off most teenagers on R6's until top speeds come into play, is immensely more fun to ride, and I've never ever seen another one coming around the corner (part of the reason I like my R12).

For something that unique, I'd pop another couple grand for a body kit. I don't need the wheels or suspension or brakes (already got 'em), but front ends & shocks are a dime a dozen on fleabay if you don't. Ohlins, Marchesini, etc would obviously push the price skyward, but aren't really necessary.

I don't have time to build something from scratch again, so I'm hoping the rumored new KTM supermono sport version comes true. If it's anything under $10 or $12k, I'm in - if not, I guess I'll have to get busy in the shop again.

[JonyRR]

the intent of these things is to have a pure GP (grand prix) roadracer in the mold and manner of the hallowed TZ250, RS250, Aprillia 250, etc.
Single-purpose machines that never had streetbike compromises to engineer out. Cornering speed, line, turn-in, etc is better learned on one of these and then taken to the next level rather than one's roadracer being a gixxer750.
And properly ridden, a typical GP single can give a squid a very bad day.
I love these things.
Honda and Moriwaki are building a turnkey 250 for $12k. This IS reasonable compared to buying a TZ and tghey should ber cheaper to maintain as well.
It's like comparing a rapier to a battleaxe; finesse V S brute force.

[roger albert]

I'm with those last two posts. Comparing the economics to some boring, big, fat, piggy 600s is missing the point entirely. They will always be heavy pigs. They're just production bikes. And 6k is a mediocre one, unless it's a mildly used, already prepped and outfitted one (but then it would be an apples and oranges comparison) Also, ongoing parts, gas, and tires, are much less than for a 600. The economic comparison doesn't make any sense even. Nor the racing one.

Though I run mini supermotos for cost reasons, I'd prefer something more GP oriented too. The new KTM RC4 would fit the bill. Under 10k and I'm in.

[Ultra54]

[chewie]

That'd be fun for sure!

...the guy interviewing him could easily get a gig doing Berts voice (Bert and Ernie off sesame St).





In case it's been a while for you

Bert and Ernie .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nSmWHHZpVE

[HugoVW]

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2008/02/28/roland-sands-450-supersingle/
"Sands will be offering the Yamaha as a complete ready to race motorcycle, price of the Yamaha is $14,999."
60hp and 113kg's sounds like fun

[bradzdotcom]

good ole' RS sure is getting ink, especially when you consider that the driving force behind the whole concept is Gavin Trippe, who along with Bruce Cox, brought us the USGP in Carlsbad and the original Superbikers on TV, a fore-runner of today's supermoto.

i remember talking to Gavin & son at a supercross race (3 years ago?) about the project, long before he wandered down to Roland's place. Gavin's never been one to toot his own horn, but dang, credit where credit due and all that!

and i don't think 15k is too much for a race bike. lots of guys spend that much on their race bike AFTER they buy it, for go-fastie components.

[roger albert]

Well said Brad. Don't get me wrong. I really like Roland, but he's more or less 'just' the builder here. And big props on the build, but the whole concept is a Trippe.

I think $15k is lot to most people, given that you can buy 3 decently built and prepped used superbike SV650s (or 5 superstock SVs) for that same money.

It sounds OK when you compare it to a new 125 or upper end 600-1000s, but hardly cheap.

Otoh, I have well on the way to half that much in my F5 bike, which has 1/2 the chassis,1/3 the motor/power, and None of the bodywork of one of the TrippeCycles, so my judgement is suspect anyway. (but it is winning - heh-heh)

[shreddr]

$15K is not cheap by any means! as a racer looking for a competitive edge, i would imagine you can spend that much, but I would feel heavily invested at that point, and that doesn't include gear, spares, tires, gas etc.. i know racing isnt cheap, but a $15K price point for what is supposed to be an entry level experience is RETARDED!. the first time you pitch it off the track you will be in tears! NOW the big idea is that the manufacturers see the opportunity and offer one up at $5000-$6000, which should be easy for them to tool up.

It was a great idea when it was road tires on smaller rims, laced to the same hub, same brakes, same suspension (travel reduced, changed final gearing and some inexpensive bodywork in order to modify a stock MXer (Supermoto, with a fairing) while Rolands idea is sure pretty eye candy, the practicality is ridiculous... please dont respond and tell me how much money you had in your XR50 pitbike, i get that its easy to spend lots of cash on one-off stuff. the big idea is to get in cheap, have a blast, crash and not break the bank (or bod), and level the playing field. Roland will not get rich selling those bikes.

[roger albert]

> $5000-$6000

While I agree 15 isn't cheap, but 5-6 is a poorly thought out fantasy. That's plain dirtbike pricing (not even a high end one) You have to add bodywork, a greater cooling system, bigger rims and brakes, and a somewhat more expensive fork. But why quibble. Maybe doable for 7k retail.

[JonyRR]

not to pick nits;
but;
15K IS cheap for something like this, if it's turnkey.
having been there, done that with many wins and several season championships in the PacNW on single-cylinder GP bikes, back in the day (WMRRA/OMRRA) I'd probably have sold my soul to lucifer for one of those. what technology for a cheap price.
it adds up so quick; try it some time and tell me how cheaply you can do a WINNING recipe (you can do it on the cheap but you WILL be at the back of the pack) and I wouldn't spend 7K to lose when I have a chance to run at the front for 15. Nowadays, I just watch but I'll bet I spent enough money to buy the state of california for cash back then.....and I don't regret a minute of it. You cant take it with you and no-one remembers...but it was cool and I was broke. so what. you can make more money but you cant' make more time.

[Rixster]

Originally Posted by JonyRR

not to pick nits;
but;
15K IS cheap for something like this, if it's turnkey.
having been there, done that with many wins and several season championships in the PacNW on single-cylinder GP bikes, back in the day (WMRRA/OMRRA) I'd probably have sold my soul to lucifer for one of those. what technology for a cheap price.
it adds up so quick; try it some time and tell me how cheaply you can do a WINNING recipe (you can do it on the cheap but you WILL be at the back of the pack) and I wouldn't spend 7K to lose when I have a chance to run at the front for 15. Nowadays, I just watch but I'll bet I spent enough money to buy the state of california for cash back then.....and I don't regret a minute of it. You cant take it with you and no-one remembers...but it was cool and I was broke. so what. you can make more money but you cant' make more time.

That, my friend, is a great attitude.

[roger albert]

A great attitude, and true. I'm still not quite convinced 15k is cheap, but I buy into the philosophy. I've blown more on my little bikes (4-6k each) than my SV (<4k), but the difference is that on days I don't suck, the little ones can run near the front. Whereas, even if I'm having a killer outing, my SV won't do more than midpack. You can have a lot of fun running near the back, but it's a lot more fun to dice near the front.

[Ultra54]

You cant take it with you and no-one remembers...but it was cool and I was broke. so what. you can make more money but you cant' make more time.

I like the way you think brother.

[Highlander179]

are those MX engines meant to be held wide open for long periods of time like on a road racer? the engine will definately be under different pressures than what an MX/SX bike would do to it? does a 4stk make sense over a 2stk for this application? Rog?