OT: Ducati Debuts CF Frame Tomorrow

[Guest24]

Ducati will debut their cf frame on their MotoGP bikes for '09. Stoner and Hayden will get their first rides on the new techno bikes tomorrow. Don't you know Nicky is stoked for this one.

[shreddr]

I thought I saw somewhere that Stoner already tested it, he said it was great.

[Guest24]

Stoner doesn't get his first ride until testing at Valencia tomorrow and Tuesday. Then he goes in for wrist surgery (a bone graft) One of his seven wrist bones is dying.

[Highlander179]

Nicky has always liked a chassis with flex. I dont see how the CF is going to work for him... unless Ducati have figured out a way to have CF flex without cracking. Has anybody else.... ?

[Guest24]

Maybe that's why Nicky said he'll know whether or not he can get the job done on the Duc after he rides it tomorrow. Don't know if they could taper the tubing or if it's possible.

[Highlander179]

Nick & Ducati said they'll know within the first half hour of him riding the bike if its going to work for him or not. They also know is that he's not going to lay down and die like Melandri did after 3 races. Nick has no quit in him. Duc also has a wildcard tucked in their sleeve with Gibernau. His job is to develop the bike so that EVERYONE can ride it. Kinda like what the Honda used to be and the Yam is right now.

The CF chassis may or may not work for anybody. Honestly, they dont know yet. The big problem is that they had this master plan over a year ago and now the spec tire rule is going to put a wrinkle in it. How you ask? By limiting testing. Dorna has cut the allowed testing dates and tire allotments giving them less time to figure out their needs and make the necessary decisions to go forward. You could say everybody is in the same boat, but not really as Ducati seem to be making the most drastic step. They "could be" hurt the most.

From what I know of CF, which is admittedly next to nothing, is that CF is RIGID, meaning no flex and no tuned flex. Rog?

There are a lot of interesting stories in this offseason, thats for sure.

[Guest24]

Oh no! MotoGP could become a 2-wheeled NASCAR. lol You've posted what I've read George. I think Nicky will pluck the Duc very nicely for them. 9 years on the same team IS the testimony that he doesn't quit.

[Bigred455]

George,
I can't comment from an expert view point. BUT I have been told by a mountain bike guy that they use carbon fiber in there bike frames to get some give out of rigid frames.

Also, I thought I read somewhere that the HP2S subframe is slotted at the exh attatchment points due to expansion and contraction related to heat?

AND, I'm sure the Duc GP guys know more than I. Regardless I'm interested to see this new technology and how it will get filtered down through the ranks.

[Highlander179]

Originally Posted by Bigred455

George,
I can't comment from an expert view point. BUT I have been told by a mountain bike guy that they use carbon fiber in there bike frames to get some give out of rigid frames.

Well, thats contrary to what I was told by a Felt rep about CF forks. He said they dont flex, they explode, thus they will only put them on BMX bikes for riders under 90lbs. I know its apples and oranges but still....

On the NASCAR thing.... Im all for the spec tire EXCEPT for the fact that they are limited so much in quantity, thus limiting testing. BS really need to step it up, or at least offer more tires to teams that are willing to pay. I want the bikes and riders as far developed as they can get. I could care less about what round black rubber thingies they use.

"9 years on the same team IS the testimony that he doesn't quit."
same brand, but yeah, I know what you mean.

[rjo]

Stoner did briefly ride the carbon fibre framed bike at an earlier test, and was as fast on it as the bikes which had been tuned for the race. They decided that it was the way to go, and ticked it off.
Today's test will show if they made the correct decision.

[HugoVW]

CF can flex like any material; depends on the resin, etc. you use: check this piece on some info:
http://bottpower.com/eng/?p=38
So you probably can control the flex even more then with steel

[branners]

I was talking to someone who follows MotoGP very closely and he had an interesting theory. He reckons that Ducati has already raced the CF chassis – but not with Ducati Corse. He swears that he saw Elias on the bike when he had those two podiums in a row, which would indicate that Pramac D'Antin would have run it as a test for the works team, once Yamaha and Rossi were well out of reach of Stoner.
Elias thanked Ducati for 'new parts' after his second place at Cz, and then said he felt 'something inside'. Maybe that was 'inside' the fairing?
Interesting theory, not sure whether this fits within the rules or not. If anyone has any images from Brno, I would love to see 'em.

[Fenring]

Originally Posted by HugoVW

CF can flex like any material; depends on the resin, etc. you use: check this piece on some info:
http://bottpower.com/eng/?p=38

Sounds plausible. CF should be rigid enough, but what they are gunning for is the dampening properties. Looking at GP Ducatis on track they do move around and chatter more then other bikes, they probably want to get rid of that problem, so that the bike would be more controllable. I did notice Stoner throwing that bike around like it's a toy and he seems to be the only one able to pull it off, probably due to his dirt track experience, which is something that Hayden has too. I think Hayden might be even better on Ducati, if he makes peace with it's traction control, because I don't think that thing works well without it. I've seen Stoner going early on the gas not worrying about rear traction, while Nicky prefers a more conservative traction control that allows him to slide the rear much more then anyone else does.

[HugoVW]

later this week I may be able to confirm the Elias story...

[Highlander179]

1. Stoner (Ducati) 1.32.464 (lap 31 of 32)
2. Pedrosa (Honda) 1.32.672 (24 of 27)
3. Capirossi (Suzuki) 1.33.325 (37 of 39)
4. De Angelis (Honda) 1.33.375 (35 of 38)
5. Vermeulen (Suzuki) 1.33.565 (19 of 35)
6. Lorenzo (Yamaha) 1.33.722 (6 of 13)
7. Hopkins (Kawasaki) 1.33.760 (44 of 45)
8. De Puniet (Honda) 1.33.832 (39 of 42)
9. Hayden (Ducati) 1.34.128 (40 of 41)
10. Melandri (Kawasaki) 1.34.152 (32 of 37)
11. Dovizioso (Honda) 1.34.340 (18 of 21)
12. Gibernau (Ducati) 1.34.451 (21 of 21)
13. Elias (Honda) 1.34.628 (28 of 35)
14. Jacque (Kawasaki) 1.35.013 (38 of 40)
15. Canepa (Ducati) 1.35.459 (27 of 29)
16. Kallio (Ducati) 1.35.727 (21 of 25)
17. Takahashi (Honda) 1.36.895 (26 of 39)
18. Talmacsi (Aprilia) 1.39.702 (250 cc)

[Guest24]

Just watched the clip of Nicky on the Stars and Stripes Ducati. AWESOME!!!!!!!!

George, Nicky had the a$$ end of the Duc moving around driving out of the turns and he was on the first lap. They will definately be messing with the Traction Control between now and April.

[Guest24]

I just watched the crash outtakes for Valencia in the rain. Man it was brutal.

[roger albert]

For a given weight, the CF is a good deal stiffer, but that can be tweaked by structure (dimensions, taper etc), weave/overlay pattern, and resin choices. It has a LOT of internal damping compared to Steel. I'm sure Ducati planned to have a lot more pre-use testing and agree that this will be an extra challenge for them.

Nail, where'd you see the clip you mentioned. I'd like to check it out.

[Guest24]

Originally Posted by roger albert

For a given weight, the CF is a good deal stiffer, but that can be tweaked by structure (dimensions, taper etc), weave/overlay pattern, and resin choices. It has a LOT of internal damping compared to Steel. I'm sure Ducati planned to have a lot more pre-use testing and agree that this will be an extra challenge for them.

Nail, where'd you see the clip you mentioned. I'd like to check it out.

On the MotoGP website, Roger.

[Chris Canning]

Stoner first rode rode C/F Ducati after the Barcelona GP earlier in the year and went very well on it.