WSB 09 The Island, BMW, Corser and Xaus
 

Hey dudes, very exciting times in WSBK this year, as we know.

The Island is going to host the very first event. It's gonna be pretty cool! Just thought it'd be good to have a thread going for this occasion.

I am interested in Corsers history at the Island - he has or had the lap record in 07 - so he is V quick there.

Xaus has said he is still coming to terms with the bike and doesn't feel he is in sync with it yet...don't quote me but I thought that's what I read K.

What say you?

Can we get a top 10 at the Island?

Thoughts, banter etc welcomed in this thread, let it all hang out!


WSBK » Qualifying times (1) – Phillip Island 2008

1. Troy Corser AUS Yamaha Motor Italia YZF-R1 1min 32.336 secs
2. Troy Bayliss AUS Ducati 1098 F08 1min 32.374 secs
3. Michel Fabrizio ITA Ducati 1098 F08 1min 32.570 secs
4 Max Neukirchner GER Team Alstare Suzuki GSX-R1000 K8 1min 32.808 secs
5. Jakub Smrz CZE Guandalini Racing by Grifo's Ducati 1098 RS 08 1min 32.827 secs
6. Max Biaggi ITA Sterilgarda Go Eleven Ducati 1098 RS 08 1min 32.827 secs
7. Ruben Xaus ESP Sterilgarda Go Eleven Ducati 1098 RS 08 1min 32.827 secs
8. Regis Laconi FRA PSG-1 Kawasaki Corse ZX-10R 1min 33.188 secs
9. Fonsi Nieto ESP Team Alstare Suzuki GSX-R1000 K8 1min 33.269 secs
10. Carlos Checa ESP Hannspree Ten Kate Honda CBR1000RR 1min 33.283 secs
11. Russel Holland AUS DFX Treme Honda CBR1000RR 1min 33.340 secs
12. Karl Muggeridge AUS DFX Treme Honda CBR1000RR 1min 33.489 secs
13. Noriyuki Haga JPN Yamaha Motor Italia YZF-R1 1min 33.588 secs
14. Gregorio Lavilla ESP Ventaxia VK Honda CBR1000RR 1min 33.718 secs
15. Ryuichi Kiyonari JPN Hannspree Ten Kate Honda CBR1000RR 1min 33.995 secs
16. David Checa ESP Yamaha Motor France-Ipone YZF-R1 1min 34.050 secs
17. Roberto Rolfo ITA Hannspree Honda Althea CBR1000RR 1min 34.082 secs
18. Kenan Sofuoglu TUR Hannspree Ten Kate Honda Jr. CBR1000RR 1min 34.171 secs
19. Lorenzo Lanzi ITA RG Team Ducati 1098 RS 08 1min 34.419 secs
20. Shinichi Nakatomi JPN YZF Yamaha YZF-R1 1min 34.446 secs
21. Makoto Tamada JPN Kawasaki PSG-1 Corse Kawasaki ZX-10R 1min 34.491 secs
22. Sebastien Gimbert FRA Yamaha Motor France-Ipone YZF-R1 1min 34.659 secs
23. Vittorio Iannuzzo ITA Team Pedercini Kawasaki ZX-10R 1min 34.765 secs
24. Shuhei Aoyama JPN Alto Evolution Honda Superbike Honda CBR1000RR 1min 35.123 secs
25. Luca Morelli ITA Alto Evolution Honda Superbike Honda CBR1000RR 1min 35.498 secs
26 Ayrton Badovini ITA Team Pedercini Kawasaki ZX-10R 1min 35.946 secs

Dnq Loic Napoleone FRA Grillini PBR Team Yamaha YZF-R1 1min 39.400 secs

Phillip Island official WSBK lap records:
Best lap: Troy Corser AUS Yamaha 1min 31.826secs (2007)
Superpole: Troy Bayliss AUS Ducati 1min 32.145secs (2007)
Fastest lap: Troy Corser AUS Yamaha 1min 31.826secs (2007)

Gotta say that the Ducs are the form bikes at the moment, as Shaky and Nori topped the most recent test. The Yams will be quick, but Spies and Sykes are Island rookies, and the Aprilia duo have form but the bikes are too new.
The BMs will improve leaps and bounds and Corser is v good at PI. So here is my Top 10:
Haga (Duc), Checa (Hon), Spies (Yam), Neukirchner (Suz), Byrne (Duc), Fabrizio (Duc), Kiyo (Honda), Corser (BMW), Nakano (Aprilia), Haslam (Honda). Probably wrong, but what would I know?
Great track and a ripper series in prospect.

I think that Corser will hit the top 5 which is unbeliveable concidering the newness of the program. I also think that we will see more than one BMW podium during the season.

It'll be interesting!!,i think BMW are barking up the same tree as all the other 4 cylinder bikes,Yamaha have already worked out it'll take something better than that to topple the 1198 and hence their big bang.

Best judge the bike on Xaus,Corser is the best R+D rider in the world,he'll do a good job of covering over the cracks,if he can do top 7 he'll be going some,podium?? only on the basis they all fall off or break down.

Spies will be interesting,being fast and being able to travel the world doing it ain't easy,the Aprilia'a haven't shown any form,but the privateer Dukes will also be fast,Byrne knows the bike inside out,i hear Haslam's bike was loosing .4 of a second on the straights Portimao,but if Hopkins takesthe Monster money i'm sure they'll sort that out.

Unless something happens to the bike...........and that is not going to be likely...........BMW will be in those top ten for sure.........and with any luck at all, in the top 5 just like Dean suggest. BMW takes it seriously when they make a move to let it be known that this is not a touring bike put on a track. Rumors of 175 plus.......at the rear wheel..........on Corser's bike. Thats 1 HP for every two pounds of bike weight people...........they are well in the hunt. The new VCT system is the most advanced one out there and should offer a torque advantage over the other bikes, especially in "out of corner" situations.

...it takes MUCH more than just raw power... if you think that power is the fix all for any kind of race, you obviously are not very close to reality.

It'll take some time to develop a true track weapon and then it'll take some more time for the riders to get comfortable on that bike... BMW is in it's first year with this bike, not having any data for any of the race tracks they are going to be on...

Will they become successful?... probably, as they do with most everything they put their collective minds to... will it be instantly? With such a refined field of competition... keep dreaming.

Top fives will be surprising... it may happen on a track that really suit one or the other rider, but not likely, initially... the fun will be to watch them learn and make progress...

Next year will be completely different, though... the field might thin out (Campaigns being pulled and all...) and new developments and rules will be in play.

Love this sport...

When's the first race?

It's all about tyre preservation,Ducati have a big twin with the best traction control by some margin,if Yamaha had still had Corser and Hagi,you could bet the house,but they went for the cheap option or Corser went for the bucks depending on who you talk to,BMW have one chance,Monza

Jim- are you getting one of these chain saws? Or too conventional?

Yes, it looks as if I am. Not really my choice of tea.......but I just can't resist the cup. Late (Oct) this year, first 100 will be here. As of now I plan to pre-pay as with the HP2. Perhaps earlier........unknown for now.

Bring it to the GMR, Jim.

Good for you, Jim. Lemme know if you find yourself in CA again.

here's the calendar Bob

March 1 Phillip Island Australia
March 14 Losail Qatar
April 5 Valencia Spain
April 26 Assen Netherlands
May 10 Monza Italy
May 17 Kyalami South Africa
May 31 Salt Lake City USA
June 21 Misano Republic of San Marino
June 28 Donington Park Europe
July 26 Brno Czech Republic
September 6 Nurburgring Germany
September 27 Imola Italy
October 4 Magny Cours France
October 25 Portimao Portugal

www.worldsbk.com
www.troycorser.com
www.rubenxaus.net is there another site? I'll edit this URL if there is...

hey Corser is 22 days younger than me and he likes golf too...that's pretty much where the similarities end though, 30kg lighter, has Lamborghini etc etc :)

Thanks Chewie. Gotta print that out. This will be an interesting season for WSB. I'm rootin' for da BMW's and Ducati's....bet ch'all knew that.
PS. Hard to believe Bayliss won't be competing.

Looks like I'll need to start recording WSB. Luckily, AMA Superbike turned to poop.

Well at the mo,we've got Valenica,Monza and the Nurburgring to go to.

Should be interesting. Hope BMW does well.
But talking about 175hp shows you're out of it as far as modern racing goes.
That's not even national level power. That's club racing numbers. Not even necessarily top tier club kit. They're probably making a good deal more. 175 is just a marketing thing.

Corser is a killer developer by all counts, but he hasn't won a race, even on a bike clearly capable of winning (reference point: Haga) so I'm not sure.

I don't think Yamaha cheaped out. I think Ducati threw crazy money at the rider they thought had the best chance of winning it: Haga.

Still, as was said earlier in the thread, Corser is good at extracting about 98% of what a bike can do, so in places where other guys struggle and the BMW is particularly well suited, some top 5s seem doable. Xaus has flashes of brilliance too.

This should be good.

Strange how folks that whine about chains and telescopics all the sudden want one and talk about how good it will do as soon as there's a roundel involved though. Just shows it's always been fan=bois stuff rather than rational input.

I'm really torn between rooting for Haga/Ducati, or BMW, or my CMRA homie and fellow yank, Mr. Spies. There's a top=tier rider or bike from every country that is a major motorcycle player this year. It's wide open.

OK, which rider or riders do we think will win in the first round?
I have no darn idea this time.

There's lots of guys to root for, I am hoping the Roundel boys do well, but I will be pulling for Spies. That dude will be world champ at some point!

I'm going out on a....
 

Risking being called a variety of names, I'll still believe that Corser and the S1000RR is better than most people think, and predict a victory or atleast a top three at PI.
The reason for this is simply how good the results of the testing has been, even though the Ducatis are kicking butt.
I know, the tests haven't been what some would have wanted... no laps faster then the opposition, no track records, and so on.
But maybe BMW is more ready than they want the opposition to know, and they still have a few days to test and improve.
Remember, none of the tests has been about showing how fast they can go!

Now, be gentle with me! ;-)

Also, I have to give a little cheer for the Swedish entry:
44) Roberto Rolfo (Honda CBR1000RR) - Stiggy Motorsport AB
91) Leon Haslam (Honda CBR1000RR) - Stiggy Motorsport AB

/J

175 HP plus at the rear wheel is very strong not matter what level you are talking about. We are talking 195 plus at the crank on a one liter machine. So what are you getting at Roger?

I seem to recall that the 996 that Bayliss rode in 2003 had 170 or so hp....give or take a year or a horse. So, while 175 now is great for a street bike, it'll need to be more to be competitive at WSB level today.

Nothing in particular. Just saying 175 is NOT a lot at any level. Any number of kids with that at any club race, and even trackdays. No worries. They may have more. I'm just saying that someone saying 175 is a good number means someone doesn't know much about modern racing.

Just have to be careful in regards to where the output is measured when comparing stuff I think.

In any case the bike has much mumbo with it's almost F1 type crazy revving engine thanks to stuff like the techno valve system it has - torque monster it is...there is no doubt about the performance of the engine.

If the Duc and the Bmr are close in terms of power, weight etc, who is the better rider at the Island? Someone on one of the Ducs or Corser? I dunno?

Though I too secretly hope like Jonas - and Ralf you might be surprised in this first year - care to make it interesting?

I'll put a fiver on a podium finish this year and top 10 in this first race, that's five Oz so only 4 for you or something lol

...and Corser was World Superbike champ in 05 BTW - Roger what you talking 'bout?

And back in 96, if you've been following WSBK that long.
But, he hasn't won a race in how many years?
No disrespect intended. Christ, winning a given championship twice, separated by 10 years is awesome. But, he may have lost his edge. He didn't win at all on the bike that Haga often could. He's still top shelf, but not at his peak.

Good for the rabid beemerphiles. If their bike can't win, they can say that Corser couldn't win on the Yam either. Still a good choice of dev rider by BMW. Corser is awesomely fast and brings it home in one piece. Nothing wrong with that.

The 1198F08 had an official peak power of 207 HP... the CBR1000RR 08 had 207 as well... if you take a transition loss of 10%, you are looking at 186 Hp at the rear for the 08 models...

I am sure they have found a couple of ponies here and there over the winter... 175 would leave you about 10 ponies behind... 5.7% quite a bit, wouldn't you think?

Torque monster, have we seen any numbers? Or have someone had a qualified guess? Like to know what I've missed!

Who is better at the Island, you don't know.. sure you do! It's Corser, you showed us the number earlier, remember?? ;-)

Secretly hope like me... haha it's not a secret anymore, it's all out on the interweb! ;-)

And about Aussieland, I've lived in Adelaide, and in my dreams I race my bike at the Adelaide Street Circuit... well at least see a motorcycle race on it! (only seen ALMS and Clipsal 500)

/J

BTW - I agree with Curve about the fact that the bmr might have a torque advantage at the Island - the Island is the fastest average speed track in the world so for example - turn 2 = southern loop which is crazy fast and pretty long - a bike here needs to be gassed right through the corner at high speed to get the drive required and then there is also turn 12, another corner where the speed is high and the gas is on hard before hitting the straight (and probably into the wind)

IMHO - these are the areas where - based on my ass and nothing more - I believe the Beemer could find some small amounts of time...

Look for turn 2 and turn 12 onto the straight and then say "Well I'll be F%cked - chewie was right"... :D

Hey - this is just my 2 cents so piss off SmileWavy

phew leave me alone - It's hot here today, I dont feel to good (45 Celsius)

Uhmm.. he still came in second in the series last year!

I work at the ER, the "doctor" suggest some soft cussions and a Coopers Pale Ale! ;-)
(I'm relaxing in -17 Celsius) :-D

Yes, he did. That's what I alluded to when I said he brings it home in one piece.
But he did it w/o a single win, on a very well developed bike that was a proven winner in other hands.

And not sure torque monster is a factor at the island. It's a power track, not a torque track.
The 4s with highest power, on average, were very strong the last two years. If you pull one guy (Bayliss) out of the mix, you see the 4s, most with more power, dominated. Bayliss is just so dominant as a rider that he made it happen anyway.

well did those bikes you speak of make small numbers in torque? I dont think so

vee vill see

and 14k rev limit gone this season BTW

edit - what I mean is, if the power is as good as any - then lets talk torque no?

Adelaide eh?

I used to spend a week out of every month there for work - liked it alot, specially the food, they are spoiled for good restaurants over there.

advice taken :) now I'm off to get some soft cushions and sit in front of the telly
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1233979556.jpg

Mmmm...
 

Good on ya Chewie!
/J

It's an interesting thread!!,but some of you must be living in a cave,horsepower 175hp!!! if it wasn't so far out it would be funny,customer Ducati FO8's put out 210 at the back wheel,how do i know??,because i stood next to the dyno when the bike(s) were on it,thats customer not factory,210 is the very minium that a Superbike will get away with,looking at straightline performance at Monza i'd say the Suzukis have 20hp more than that,at least.

As far as torque is concerned!!! hello is there anybody there",this is 2009 not 1969,what it's all about is a quickish motor matched to a traction control/clutch/suspension combo,i'm lucky enough to be closer than some as to all the ducking and diving that goes on in the background,there's a lot i'd like to go into,but the internet makes this world a small one!!

What WSB is about,is getting away at the front in the leading group,cruise to 4 laps from the end,and then find out who's riding/traction control has looked the back tyre the best,look at last year races

Yamaha will have to go off at another angle with suspension this year,the inroads they were making with Ohlins,with fully motorised suspension that could ajusted during the races has been banned,probably because Ducati didn't have it;)

My personnel interest,World Supersport,but thats another story.!!!

I dont know enough about traction control to say anything about it.

I thought engine characteristics played a big part.

What's wrong with caves? I happen to like caves very much, beer used to be stored in them for long term fermenting, lagern (lager) means to store...Octoberfest would never have happened if they hadn't had the caves to store it all, way back when...I'll be damned if I will let anybody cast dispersions on caves - you take that back;)

[deleted this bit - coz I am trying to be a more positive person]

Every year, one of the makes seems to take a big step. In 2005, Suzuki amped it up and Corser won the title; two years later, Honda picked up its game and Toseland did it. Ducati had the 1098R for the first time last season, and Bayliss won.
It will be interesting to see how it pans out this year, there is much chat that the Yamaha R1 'big bang' is the thing to have. The BMW has variable valve timing, so it may have a bit of 'both worlds'; mid-range like a Ducati and top end like the other fours.
BTW, Corser is the only rider to win SBK titles on 2 different makes, and win races on 3 different makes. Let's hope he adds to that this season.

I'm with Chris Canning. I don't think he was trying to be harsh. Just saying, as did I, that 175 hp is coming to a gunfight with a knife. The quote about it being "a lot at any level" is just ludicrously far off. Again, I see that on dynos for trackday guys and entry level, unsponsored club racers. It's a good number at that level, but a joke in wsbk.

That having been said, there are too many new marques and riders and technologies for me to have the faintest idea who will do well. It's a year where rookies have a better chance than usual (rookie rider or marques) but that's a tough row to hoe and a lot to expect. If he can adapt to the new bike quickly, it's Haga's to lose. I like Byrne and Spies too, but Byrne has new tracks and Spies new tracks and a new bike. That's asking a lot too.

Shucks, perhaps the "175 plus RWHP" rumor was started just to bring out the closet nay-sayers who in their heart of hearts always hope BMW will fail. Perhaps the numbers I got were for the standard street-legal model. We will all see by the end of the year. Sorry to be so postive about the new bike.............it being way underpowered and all.

I would suggest that the 175 RWHP number is with the box stock full emission and noise compliant street version. :D

Just sayin. SmileWavy

It's got absolutely nothing to do with being a pessimist,take the the blinkers off even if it's only for a few seconds and you'll realise there's a big old world out there and they are very good,i'm neither anti or pro BMW i gave that kinda thing up when i was around 10 years old,as far as i'm concerned the thread is about WSB,BMW is just one part of it,as is Aprilia and all the others,both these teams have a mountain to climb,with zero data,against very experienced teams who have been at it a long time,all things are possible,but i wouldn't hold your breath,not in 2009,2010 will be a different ball game.

Spies and Bryne hold the key,Bryne knows what it's like to be on the road with MotoGP,Spies will be out of his comfort zone(for a while) he has the undoubted ability,it's more todo with how long it takes to settle in,look at Bostrom,he never did.