S1K at Doha/Losail in the Dunes

[Guest24]

PI is now a good memory and it's on to Losail for the next team test for Corser, Xaus and the rest of the team. Much data to sort through quickly as the S1K continues its debut for us BMW lovers and those that will be attracted to the roundel by this I4 concept bike turned SBK track star. Can Corser deliver another fastest lap of the race and place in the top ten once again. All the teams are moving up the learning curve as the drivers get more comfortable with their machines and the new rules of Superpole are better understood. Will the S1K progress in the chassis and electronics area as Troy Corser alluded to in his interview with SBK-TV at PI. Will the engineers be able to harness the abundant power displayed in pasha's photo of Xaus driving out of the turn. The first run at PI has given rise to guarded optimism among the Pelicans that certainly want to see the roundel regain the respect of yesteryear. So it up to the land of camels and indoor snow skiing for leg two.

[signit98]

Will R2D2 be able to convince C3PO to help him find Han Solo and free him from the wrath of Jabba the Hut?

Will the be able to defend his half brother, Pizza the Hut...??? WILL THE SUN HAVE THE STRENGTH TO RISE AGAIN AFTER FALLING TO HARD INTO THE OCEAN AT NIGHT???

Ah, the pressure of everlasting questions...

Have you become the chief of the "Redundancy Department" lately, Bubba?... or have the just promoted you to the chief of the "Stating the obvious" department?

[peter f]

Erm,

I have a great sympathy for Troy (same can't be said for Ruben) but if that man Haga rides like in PI...nobody has a chance (not even Ben). Note: In Race2 Haga proved that Superpole is another useless "rule"...(but good for keeping TV audience on-line).

Other than that, don't forget that WSB is a Ducati club racing thing...I mean...so far.

He He

[roger albert]

> nobody has a chance (not even Ben)

Not sure about that either Peter.
Ben has less than half of Haga's experience overall, and NONE on the wsbk circuit, and yet beat Haga handily, at a much faster pace than race-1 was run at, and in worse conditions.

My money is still on Haga for overall experience of rider and team and a killer bike, but no chance seems to miss a lot of the background and context for what we saw over the weekend.

[peter f]

Only Time can tell...

But the interesting thing is the new mature Haga (or maybe 1098R has more electronics than NASA?). I mean that old mental Haga...

[Bob Hancock]

Originally Posted by peter f

Erm,
snippity doodah............
He He

Who is Erm?

[peter f]

Originally Posted by Bob Hancock

Who is Erm?

the ex "er...", that is

[Guest24]

Originally Posted by peter f

Erm,

I have a great sympathy for Troy (same can't be said for Ruben) but if that man Haga rides like in PI...nobody has a chance (not even Ben). Note: In Race2 Haga proved that Superpole is another useless "rule"...(but good for keeping TV audience on-line).

Other than that, don't forget that WSB is a Ducati club racing thing...I mean...so far.

He He

Superpole would be fun to watch [if we were allowed]; but, Speed Channel gives the USA more commercials and less speed than anyone could ever stand. If you love SBK-you'll hate Speed. We are left to read about Superpole in the blogs and bike mags a month after the event. Just refried beans.

Sorry you don't like the way I start a thread Ralf. NOT.

[Guest24]

No wonder Corser had a hard time figuring which tire to use. You figure the tactics on these rules and you could get hired to be on a SBK team.

The brand new Superpole format adopted by World Superbikes for the 2009 season threw up a great many conundrums at Phillip Island on Saturday, as well as a few surprises. But perhaps most of all, it also threw up confirmation of what some had suspected, and many had hoped.

The format is relatively simple, and borrowed from Formula 1:

The 20 riders who set the fastest times during the two ordinary qualifying practice sessions go through to the new Superpole;
At the end of the afternoon, Superpole is run, consisting of three 12 minute sessions, with a 7 minute break between the sessions. The riders are given two qualifying tires, which they can use at any time during any of the three Superpole sessions. But only two super-soft qualifiers spread over three sessions means that they will have to use race tires only in at least one of the sessions;
At the end of the first Superpole session, the 4 slowest riders are excluded, and grid positions 17 through 20 assigned in order of time;
At the end of the second Superpole session, the 8 slowest riders are excluded, and grid positions 9 through 16 are awarded in order of the time set in the second session;
In the third and final Superpole session, the 8 remaining riders compete against each other in a straightforward fight for grid positions, with places awarded based on the times set in this third and final session.
Easily understandable, but the subtleties and difficulties arise in the interplay between the number of qualifying tires and Superpole sessions. And those subtleties claimed their first victims in the very first session: both BMWs failed to make it through to the second session, after gambling on a soft race tire, and saving their qualifiers for later on. As it happened, neither Ruben Xaus nor Troy Corser ended up using them, the race tires leaving them just short of making the cut. They were joined by Roberto Rolfo and Tommy Hill, Hill victim of an earlier blown engine, and not enough laps to set a fast time.

[Deans BMW]

Bubba, so can you or someone explain what this means, this dummy wants to know.

[Guest24]

Originally Posted by Deans BMW

Bubba, so can you or someone explain what this means, this dummy wants to know.

If the BMW team couldn't figure it out Dean, an old fart like me wouldn't have a chance. BTW will you keep that snow up on the rim please. We had that stuff here Sunday and me and the mizzis are heading back down to the Keys. This global warming sucks.

In retrospect Dean, I think Coser's plan was to use the race tyres to ease into the sweet 16 in the first 12 minute sprint and then use the qualifiers in the last two sprints to put the S1K up close to the front. Two words--DIDN'T WORK. So, having the fastest lap bike didn't allow him to run the race that would have prolly put him, plus home track advantage, on row three minimum and a shot at the #3 place on the podium. That's how I see it.

[Steve Carlton]

So, what's the right strategy? Use the race tires for the 3rd session, if one makes it that far? Doesn't make sense to me.

[signit98]

The right strategy would be to go all out in the first session to be guaranteed an advance, IMHO. Once you are in the second group, you can be a tad more selective but not much, the third group is the one to be in... as any good rider has a chance from the first 8 spots on the grid... hell, Haga has done it from way further back in the 1st. race and once again had to advance through a few spot in the second...

I don't think holding back is the thing to do and I think the teams are realizing that quickly... next superpole should be much more interesting.

[Steve Carlton]

So, I guess the teams with the high level of confidence they can survive the first round on race tires will have a better chance of being as close to the front as possible. Without that confidence, you shoot your wad early to avoid being at the back. Interesting. What did Spies and Haga use for the first round?

[peter f]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

So, what's the right strategy? Use the race tires for the 3rd session, if one makes it that far? Doesn't make sense to me.

Well,

With all due respect to racers I definitely believe that Superpole is good for TV ads/commercials (and maybe for some hype) and has nothing to do with the chances to achieve some decent result in the actual race. I could be important if overtaking could mimic F1...

Since tire wear is the critical factor these days (and running lean as much as possible) the whole thing is how the machine/rider (actually the software, he he) treats them gently.

F1 on the other hand - IMHO : the BIG sleep - is another matter since overtaking is out of question (apples to apples obviously)... blame Max and Bernie for elaborating more and more nonsense stuff (and changing it if audience is bored).

[Guest24]

Steve, I believe Haga and Spies and others thought is was best to insure that they made the sweet 16 and the rest was gravy. I'd write the PI choice to learning curve with a twist that Corser's home track advantage would keep him in the sweet 16 on a race tyre.

Peter, superpole was set up IMO to be a series of mini-sprints to increase race day appetites. However it's wasted on one of the largest markets for crotch rockets because Speed Channel didn't chose the let us view it. It's deja vu NASCAR.

[Chris Canning]

I hear the hassle ain't the qualifying,it's the fact so much time is now spent on it,having the time to find a decent race setup is the hassle.

Kawasaki,never even used a qualy tyre they couldn't get the bike set up right with one.

[Guest24]

I finally got to watch SBK-TV's superpole cablecast. Corser, after the first 12 min heat is telling the team chief that the chatter he experienced was on the front tyre and not the soft compound rear race tire. That by itself is prolly what put him on the bubble and we all know what followed. So, if you put that together with his earlier comments about the fact that they still have chassis (suspension) and electronic issues the bike has a ways to go to be consistently competitive. But, it will be VERY competitive as race experience builds.

Chris, I fear that it will get worse as cost cutting measures are put into place ie. no testing on some of the circuits.

[Jonas The Swede]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

So, what's the right strategy? Use the race tires for the 3rd session, if one makes it that far? Doesn't make sense to me.

Well, maybe there's a way to use two set's of tires for the three stints. There's nothing that says that you need to be out there to do your flying lap for 12 minutes (Corser came in early on PI).

So, maybe the way to go is to use qual-tires for the first stint, doing a flying lap and as soon as a reasonable time is set you go back to the pit. Hopefully you have enough tire left for the next stint, using the same set of tires. If not you got to change!

Second stint, use the same tires if possible, otherwise use new ones. Hopefully this will get you to run stint three as well.

Stint three. Now you have the option of using race-tires, new qualifiers or used qualifiers, depending on what you've used.

Sounds good? Opinions?
/J

[Guest24]

Some found the way Jonas. You get 'er done is as few laps as possible and use the same tire in two heats.