S1000RR and 200hp!

[HugoVW]

For those who can read German:
http://www.mo-web.de/index.php?id=389
and for those who can't
this is the dyno of an official BMW streetlegal S1000RR (one of 125 bikes made in advance) which is noise conform (standard exhaust) and it has 200hp! making it almost 20hp more powerfull then it's Japanese competitors...ok enough BMW positive talking


Hugo

[jduke]

I like that KOOL-AID!!

[Guest24]

How to harness the massive power output of this "schnapps-rocket" has been the ongoing problem. With traction control the problem is reduced.

[SergioK]

I wish their cars could put out 200hp/liter... actually, I'd settle for a measly 150hp/liter.

[shreddr]

if power is calculated from torque how can it put out nearly double the HP output of the R12 and the same amount of torque?

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by shreddr

if power is calculated from torque how can it put out nearly double the HP output of the R12 and the same amount of torque?

PS is a German form of measuring HP:

PS
This unit (German: Pferdestärke = horse strength) is no longer a statutory unit, but is still commonly used in Europe, South America and Japan, especially by the automotive and motorcycle industry. It was adopted throughout continental Europe with designations equivalent to the English "horsepower", but mathematically different from the British unit. It is defined by the Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt (PTB)[7] in Braunschweig as exactly:

1 PS = 75 kilopond-meters per second
(75 kp·m/s)×(9.80665 N/kp) = 735.49875 N·m/s ≈ 735.5 N·m/s ≈ 735.5 W ≈ 0.7355 kW ≈ 0.98632 hp (SAE)
The PS was adopted by the Deutsches Institut für Normung (DIN) and then by the automotive industry throughout most of Europe, under varying names. In 1992, the PS was rendered obsolete by EEC directives, when it was replaced by the kilowatt as the official power measuring unit. It is still in use for commercial and advertising purposes, as many customers are not familiar with the use of kilowatts for engines.

[shreddr]

Originally Posted by cageyar

PS is a German form of measuring HP:

PS
This unit (German: Pferdestärke = horse strength) is no longer a statutory unit, but is still commonly used in Europe, South America and Japan, especially by the automotive and motorcycle industry. It was adopted throughout continental Europe with designations equivalent to the English "horsepower", but mathematically different from the British unit. It is defined by the Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt (PTB)[7] in Braunschweig as exactly:

1 PS = 75 kilopond-meters per second
(75 kp·m/s)×(9.80665 N/kp) = 735.49875 N·m/s ≈ 735.5 N·m/s ≈ 735.5 W ≈ 0.7355 kW ≈ 0.98632 hp (SAE)
The PS was adopted by the Deutsches Institut für Normung (DIN) and then by the automotive industry throughout most of Europe, under varying names. In 1992, the PS was rendered obsolete by EEC directives, when it was replaced by the kilowatt as the official power measuring unit. It is still in use for commercial and advertising purposes, as many customers are not familiar with the use of kilowatts for engines.

Is this supposed to be the answer to my question? Here is a blurb from a link:

In order to discuss powerplants in any depth, it is essential to understand the concepts of POWER and TORQUE.

It often seems that people are confused about the relationship between POWER and TORQUE. For example, we have heard engine builders, camshaft consultants, and other technical experts ask customers:

"Do you want your engine to make HORSEPOWER or TORQUE?"
And the question is posed in a tone which strongly suggests that these experts believe power and torque are somehow mutually exclusive.

In fact, the opposite is true, and you should be clear on these facts:

1.POWER (the rate of doing WORK) is dependent on TORQUE and RPM.
2.TORQUE and RPM are the MEASURED quantities of engine output.
3.POWER is CALCULATED from torque and RPM, by the following equation:
HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/power_and_torque.htm

So using the simple HP equation at the bottom of the blurb the answer is obvious, in order to get more HP with the same torque output you need to increase RPM, thats it.

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by shreddr

Is this supposed to be the answer to my question? Here is a blurb from a link:

In order to discuss powerplants in any depth, it is essential to understand the concepts of POWER and TORQUE.

It often seems that people are confused about the relationship between POWER and TORQUE. For example, we have heard engine builders, camshaft consultants, and other technical experts ask customers:

"Do you want your engine to make HORSEPOWER or TORQUE?"
And the question is posed in a tone which strongly suggests that these experts believe power and torque are somehow mutually exclusive.

In fact, the opposite is true, and you should be clear on these facts:

1.POWER (the rate of doing WORK) is dependent on TORQUE and RPM.
2.TORQUE and RPM are the MEASURED quantities of engine output.
3.POWER is CALCULATED from torque and RPM, by the following equation:
HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/power_and_torque.htm

So using the simple HP equation at the bottom of the blurb the answer is obvious, in order to get more HP with the same torque output you need to increase RPM, thats it.

Dude, you/re getting lazy:

HP --> KW:
* Horsepower x 0.746 = KW's
eg 200hp x 0.746 = 149.2KW's

[shreddr]

did you miss my original question? The SKRR and the R12S both put out almost identical peak torque, so my question was how does the SKRR get so much more HP, and the answer is that it revs practically twice as much. Its all about the revs.

[AZ-Twin]

Shreddr,

The RPM in the equation is an average of some sort. I will have to look up the formula but it is not linear RPM, so an engine that revs higher gets more RPM credit. I will try to find the formula.

[edit] scratch that, if I understand what I just read correctly (not likely) it is because that torque level is obtained at a higher RPM.

I copied the below from here.

http://www.bristoldyno.com/info/whatis.htm

"There are a few common misconceptions concerning horsepower, torque, and the role they play in your engine and in your vehicle. For starters, they are not independent factors – the horsepower and torque numbers are mathematically linked with a formula: horsepower = torque X rpm / 5252. Therefore at any given rpm, if one knows the torque, one can calculate the horsepower, and vice-versa. In the automotive world, torque is strength and horsepower is the ability to perform work in a given amount of time. So, regardless of how badly one wants that high torque number, horsepower is what actually moves your car down the street or around the track, and horsepower is what tows trailers.

Of course, this does not mean that torque is meaningless. An engine’s torque curve is its fingerprint. It shows how strong the engine is at every rpm. The horsepower curve is merely a function of that torque curve and the rpm. Therefore, it’s not necessarily the peak torque number that matters, but where in the rpm range that peak is, and over what rpm range one can find a relatively high torque, as that will determine where and what the highest horsepower is and dictate how the vehicle accelerates at a given rpm. All engines are designed to be the strongest at one particular rpm range. Heavy cars and trucks have engines with torque peaks low in the rpm range. This results in relatively high horsepower numbers in that range, giving the engines the ability to accelerate those vehicles without the drivers having to rev them up. The successful racecar engine has a torque peak high in the rpm range, or at least a torque curve that doesn’t fall too sharply at the high rpm range where the engine is typically operated. This allows for the horsepower to be at a very high level in this high rpm range. The typical street car is usually somewhere in the middle.

To summarize – a good analogy is a person on a bicycle. Someone with high torque at low rpm would be the weightlifter mentioned earlier. Someone with relatively high horsepower would be Lance Armstrong. The weightlifter may be able to tow a heavy load slowly, but Lance can maintain a decent torque at a high rpm. Guess who wins a race?"

[ckcarr]

Originally Posted by AZ-Twin

To summarize – a good analogy is a person on a bicycle. Someone with high torque at low rpm would be the weightlifter mentioned earlier. Someone with relatively high horsepower would be Lance Armstrong. The weightlifter may be able to tow a heavy load slowly, but Lance can maintain a decent torque at a high rpm. Guess who wins a race?"

The tortoise?

[wswartzwel]

You don't like the Hair do you...

[shreddr]

hey Hugo, you are pretty excellent with Photoshop, how about taking the SKRR and putting a set of jugs on it, so we could all get an idea what the new R13S would look like!

[shreddr]

I found this schematic of the SKRR exhaust, and the blurb below. Boy is this thing screaming for a full Akra!



"Exiting spent gasses is a uniquely-designed 4-2-1 exhaust system, featuring a host of race technology mixed in with the emissions requirements designed to meet government regulations while still providing as much usable power as possible. It uses a short rear end muffler, pre-silencer and electronically controlled interference pipe flaps, as well as a fully controlled exhaust gas manifold and two fully controlled three-way catalytic converters"

found it here: http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/617/3678/Motorcycle-Article/BMW-S1000RR-Breaks-Cover-in-America.aspx