Ed Bargy School!

[JimMoore]

Folks,

Four memeber of the local BMW club and I took the Bargy school at Jennings yesterday. It freaking rocked! It was by far the best school I have ever attended. If you have never gone to a typical school, it works like this. A guy comes in, sits you down, and says, "OK, I'm really fast. You're not. First, let me tell you some tales of my fabulous career as a racer. Then, we'll go ride. Kinda try to do what I do. Of course, you won't be able to, because I'm fast, and you're not."

Bargy was totally different. He spent most of the day talking about the physics behind riding, cornering, and braking. He covered these areas in extremely fine detail. He also talked a lot about how to tell when you are approaching the "edge." It was very illuminating, and a lot of fun. His instructors were friendly and extremely helpful. I cannot recommend it highly enough.

Here are the three coolest things I learned in the school:

1. Adjust your line mid-corner with the throttle instead of steering. Steering inputs cause the front contact patch to wiggle, which uses up traction.

2. At the end of a long straightaway your front tire has cooled off significantly, so you have brake progressively, both to shift weight and to reheat the front tire.

3. The bike will try to stand up out of the turn when you are trail-braking. This is actually good, because when the bike stops trying to stand up, it means the front tire is starting to slip, so you need to ease off the brakes. (Note: This is entirely theoretical in my case. I'm too chicken to play around with this too much. Maybe next time.)

4. I brake like a girl. (Note: The instructors didn't actually say, "go bake me some cookies, Nancy," but I could tell they were thinking it.)

OK, that was four things. It was cool. You oughta do it.

[roger albert]

Nice (and funny) report Jim. I've always heard good things about Bargy's school.
Thanks for sharing.

[Bob Hancock]

I did Uncle Ed's school years ago at Roebling, Jim. His lunch explanations of things like counter steering were excellent.....maybe I should do him again as age has caught up with what I thought I could do. Either that or get a good cookie recipe.

[Guest24]

Originally Posted by Bob Hancock

I did Uncle Ed's school years ago at Roebling, Jim. His lunch explanations of things like counter steering were excellent.....maybe I should do him again as age has caught up with what I thought I could do. Either that or get a good cookie recipe.

Do you want some company? I'm getting more free time lately. I'm an ole dog that still has the ability to learn new tricks. Maybe TIG welding next quarter at the tech training center.

[JonyRR]

'Maybe TIG welding next quarter'

I took 5 semesters of welding at the local CC when I lived in Fairbanks years ago.

TIG was my favorite, and you can do anything with it.

Only issue is the equipment buy-in. A real machine that really does it all starts at around $2500.00. Kinda pricy, but REAL tools as opposed to 'hobbyist' stuff is expensive. and worth it...

[tm1100s]

TIG? 2500 plus the bottle, cooler and lots of nice extras that don't come with the basic buy-in.

Been lookin' for one for an upgrade.

[wswartzwel]

Originally Posted by JonyRR

'Maybe TIG welding next quarter'

I took 5 semesters of welding at the local CC when I lived in Fairbanks years ago.

TIG was my favorite, and you can do anything with it.

Only issue is the equipment buy-in. A real machine that really does it all starts at around $2500.00. Kinda pricy, but REAL tools as opposed to 'hobbyist' stuff is expensive. and worth it...

You forget who you are talking to Jony. Bubba could buy the school....

[JonyRR]

oh.

yeah, forgot about that.

my henrob is good enuf, but I WOULD like a real tig.

[Guest24]

Originally Posted by wswartzwel

You forget who you are talking to Jony. Bubba could buy the school....

are there two Bubba's on this forum? Because this Bubba is on fixed income.

[wswartzwel]

Wish I could get mine fixed too...

[JonyRR]

I'd spend it all now when the dollar has some residual value.

There's some issues afoot internationally that will bode ill for us all, very likely after first-of-year...
from several sources reporting this:

November 19, 2009
Jim Willie, The Golden Jackass

The rise in gold pre-sages a currency collapse, led by the USDollar. Gold vaults at commodity exchanges in New York and especially London are being drained by delivery demands. Gold demand is skyrocketing, as distrust for the USDollar is broadening and revolt against the US$ is deepening. The quintessential finance war is between the United States and China, with the battlefield being the US$ and Gold. The race over the $1000 price level came in the face of mammoth shorting by the same Usual Suspects on Wall Street, which do so with paper, but without the required collateral. The gold market is poised for a surprise upward move from a basic broken condition, as the Powerz are losing control. It would be a joy to watch except for the extreme hardship due to come to the betrayed American people.

$$$ THE BIGGEST GOLD CRIME STORY OF THE CENTURY MIGHT BE SOON COMING TO FULL LIGHT. EVIDENCE IS BEING ACCUMULATING THAT THE CLINTON ADMIN WITH RUBIN AT USDEPT TREASURY REPLACED PERHAPS THE ENTIRE CONTENTS OF THE FORT KNOX GOLD WITH TUNGSTEN BARS PLATED BY GOLD. THE SALTED GOLD BARS ARE FASTING BECOMING A GLOBAL CRIME ISSUE. HONG KONG DISCOVERED THEM, AND NOW ASSAYERS ARE TRYING TO AUTHENTICATE MOST OF THE GLOBAL GOLD HELD IN BANKS. ENTIRE NATIONS ARE AT RISK. BEFORE LONG THE USGOVT COULD BE DECLARED A ROGUE NATION INTERNATIONALLY. $$$

Evidence is being gathered by perhaps a dozen key gold traders with diverse connections to the gold industry. They tie the delivery systems, the authentication processes, the assayers, record keeping, big financial firms, and trading platforms. Evidence mounts that as many as 1.5 million 400-oz gold bars were replaced at Fort Knox during the Clinton Admin with tungsten bars covered with a thin gold plate. This was a complex metallurgical feat, from what is told. The first 'salted bars' were discovered in Hong Kong a month ago, reported by the Hat Trick Letter. Since that time, tens of thousands of bars have been examined, usually using four test holes drilled for direct sampling. Other non-invasive methods are being used as well, such as electro-magnetic tests to detect the actual lattice structure of the metal to distinguish gold from other substitutes. Word came this week that almost every available assayer in the world is currently tied up, charged with proving the authenticity of gold bars worldwide, right now! Rob Kirby suspects that the Street Tracks GLD exchange traded fund might be loaded with such salted bars. It is a perfect destination for them, since the Wall Street syndicate prevents any audit. The total value of gold removed within the plot was worth over $500 billion. So where are the real gold bars stored? My guess is the same location where the Madoff money is secretly held.

My view is the story is not only credible, but it is the climax to the US financial collapse. In time the United States will be isolated, declared a Rogue Nation, unable to fund its debt except with monetization, whose leaders and former leaders face international prosecution. The resulting inflation will undermine the USDollar to the point that it will not be accepted. A USTreasury default will be forced, all in time. To be sure, some demand for gold might be frozen into inaction obviously, as customers would fear owning fake gold bars. However, the significantly greater effect is that sellers of gold will scramble to purchase real gold bars, so as to avoid fraud charges, criminal prosecution, and jail time. They will be motivated to repair the fraudulent transaction with full expedience. The replacement effect will cause an extraordinarily huge demand. Only at that time, will the risk of exposing the stolen gold come, as the thieves will want to cash out on their crime, at least partially. The removal and illegal swap of gold has precedent. In the 1960 decade, around 1968, President Lyndon Johnson ordered the removal of 7000 of the 8000 tons of gold from Fort Knox, and had it sent to England. The motive was to support the gold price at the time. Just a few years later, the US under President Nixon abandoned the US$ Gold Standard, as dictated by the Bretton Woods Accord. The gold was replaced during the Johnson Admin in Fort Knox by lead bars plated by gold. A contact of mine was in the USMilitary Police at the time. He reported long caravans exiting Fort Knox for weeks at a time, but the details of shipments were not known to the guards, only their duties.

For some excellent forensic financial analysis on the fake gold project, called Operation Grand Slam, see Rob Kirby's article. It is entitled "On Doing God A New Take On Operation Grand Slam With A Tungsten Twist HERE), dated 12 November 2009. $$$ GOLD MARKET BREAKDOWN IS WITHIN VIEW. LONDON GOLD IS BEING DRAINED BY THE CHINESE. A DISMANTLE OF THE CRIMINAL APPARATUS IS THEIR GOAL. UPON FULL BREAKDOWN, THE GOLD PRICE WILL BE RELEASED FROM PAPER TENTACLES AND RISE SHARPLY. $$$

Pressures mounted in early October at the London metals exchange as gold contract holders demanded delivery of gold. My source tells me that the parties demanding gold were almost exclusively Chinese. It is mostly private billionaires. Their stated motive was to diversify out of US$-based assets. Their rumored motive was to ruin the exchange, expose the chronic fraud linked to government ministries, and force the USDollar to fight in the open to demonstrate value or lack of value. The source said the next round of gold contract delivery pressure comes in late November, then again in March 2010, and finally in June 2010. He said the gold is gradually being drained in London, and that all demands for gold delivery were met in October, using legal force, the courts, and powerful attorneys. Not a single gold contract was settled for cash with a 25% dividend bribe. He concluded that the financial system will be broken at the gold-USDollar cross beam. He openly stated that he could not conceive of the system holding together past June of next year, and a severe test is likely in March 2010. He said with sly tone, "There is a saying: Watch out or you become **** before your own shovel. That is what is happening to the BOYZ right now. The people in the driver seat of the bulldozer have clear instructions what to do in the gold market." When the breakdown comes, it will be next to impossible to trade in USDollars, to settle commerce in USDollars, to finance the USTreasurys, to supply the USEconomy with credit, and to maintain the US banking system. The banks in the United States will then shut down in all likelihood.

My view is that a battle royal is being played out with gross global pressures, between the old broken insolvent corrupted powers of the West versus the new wealthy ambitious powers of the East, led by China. The future chapters will possibly involve the Intl Court in The Hague for prosecutions against the Wall Street firms and former USTreasury officials. It will possibly involve a wave of murders from the middle levels, working up, since the guilty parties operate with impunity and government protection. It will surely involve relentless attacks on COMEX and London CME for gold deliveries, where collateral requirements are not enfoced. The practice is known as naked shorting, illegal. It will probably involve the isolation of the United States, with full recognition of a crime syndicate lodged within its government ministries and capital markets. These are truly incredible times.

[Bob Hancock]

So....Jony....if one were to have $250k looking for a place to land would he buy gold or 16 S1000RR's?

[GotRoad?]

I just started reading this thread. Holy ****!! What hath Ed Bargy wrought???

[ForBell]

Originally Posted by GotRoad?

I just started reading this thread. Holy ****!! What hath Ed Bargy wrought???

HA! jonyrr, king of the thread hi-jackers, but he don't care. you wanted to hear more about the ed bargy school?, too bad.

[JimMoore]

Something else I remembered as I was reviewing my notes. He said you should be upshifting out of a turn approximately when you reach the outside edge of the track on the far side of the turn. He said if you are doing it later than that, you are giving yourself a false sense of security because you are able to roll on lots of throttle coming out of the turn since your bike is not in the power band. Someday you will break the rear end loose coming out of a turn and your rear tire will immediately try to match your throttle setting. If you are the correct gear, the wheel will spin a little bit. If you are in too high of a gear, the tire will immediately go to your artificially high throttle setting. Ouch.

[Martin Glasser]

If you are the correct gear, the wheel will spin a little bit. If you are in too high of a gear, the tire will immediately go to your artificially high throttle setting. Ouch.

Think you mean too low because you delayed upshifting. ?

[JimMoore]

Originally Posted by Martin Glasser

Think you mean too low because you delayed upshifting. ?

No, too high of a gear. Here's the scenario. You have to assume you are exiting the corner with a combination of lean angle, speed, and acceleration that places your rear tire close to the edge of traction. You open the throttle as far as you can, as soon as you think you can get away with it. Suddenly the rear end breaks loose. If you're in second gear at 14,000 rpm, you get a slight wheelspin as the engine / wheel speed increases to your 15,000 rpm redline. If you're in 4th gear at 10,000 rpm (at approximately the same speed), you get a huge wheelspin as your engine / wheel speed goes to 15,000 rpm. I've done both. The former is highly preferable to the latter.

[Bob Hancock]

Jim this sounds like you are riding your I-4 UJM and not a boxer. Would it work the same way with a boxer where the torque characteristics are different? I recall reading a report in RRWorld written by Chris Ulrich when he was riding a Ducati.....forget which but think it was a 1098. He said he was faster by using a higher gear than he was used to when on a GSXR1000.

OK....I may have this all scrambulated, but to be honest I didn't understand what the recommendation was either. When I've done trackdays (and on the street actually) I always felt safer in a higher gear (lower rpm) coming out of a corner. Of course my skill level never really put me on the edge of traction, but the bike felt less frantic and therefore less prone to spin the rear.

Thanks for taking the time to help us understand what Uncle Ed taughtcha.

[JimMoore]

He mentioned that this mainly applied to I4s, and you may want a different plan with a twin, but he didn't really get into it. Noone had a twin at the school, so no one asked any questions on that point.

[roger albert]

Applies well to both actually. A higher gear, on the one hand, gives lower torque multiplication, making the wheel less likely to spin up. On the other hand, the larger throttle opening carried in this high-load scenario means, that if the tire does break traction and spin up, it will spin up far more, as the engine rpms rise to whatever unloaded rpm that throttle opening allows. Think of how fast your bike revs in neutral at 1/8th or 1/4th throttle, vs 1/2 throttle, and which wheel speed you'd rather have rev out of control, and possibly suddenly regrip.

So, to recap. more throttle means less likely to spin up, but a worse spin up (and more likelihood of a high-side) if it were to happen.