Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > BMW Forums > BMW Technical Forums > BMW R1100S / R1200S Tech Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered
 
peter f's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: greece
Posts: 1,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofatester View Post
And you should take into consideration that Dimsport, the italian manufacturer of Rapid Bike, just develops the all-new Rapid Bike Evo (RB Evo). Rumors have it that this device will severely outperform the PC5 in computer speed. RB Evo will also include a twin probe AutoTune feature and will consist of just one small box instead of three boxes as with PC 5 + AT 100.
AFAIK, no Beemer in the EVO application list.


__________________
R12S, black, ex Ohlins (now WP), full HPE, RB3
Old 05-21-2010, 04:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
Regnat populus
 
boxercup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Manhattan, NY USA
Posts: 2,371
Garage
EVO - Total Injection Control

Greetings,

The Rapid Bike EVO is for injection adjustment only - BUT there is no ability to adjust Ignition timing with the RB EVO!

It was created for applications with upper and lower injectors.

With the EVO you can adjust all the injection values for all of the injectors.
__________________
Cheers,

Robert Foster

FOSTER RAD
LASER Engineering Exhaust Systems
RapidBike USA
Oakland Gardens, NY
Robert@FosterRAD.com
718-468-4680

Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.
Old 05-21-2010, 06:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
Registered
 
peter f's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: greece
Posts: 1,800
In the mean time > the very same problems (Kostas is a good friend of mine):

Frage fur rapid bike 3 - S-Boxer-Forum

PS: did an extensive 200 km test using another RB3 module (with...er... Yamaha R1 maps, now that's a world's first, he he). Assuming that my L-eliminators (obviously are the correct ones) are working OK....



... the situation is the same (traffic/town/lot's of idle): HIDEOUS fuel consumption, smelly exhaust, empty valet (1.8E/lt RON 100) - but ponies are back (no dyno, just the feeling of the thing).

PS: L-eliminators are NOT waterproof (classic Italian job) but I've sealed mine using my patent 3677788889 (US rights pending).

Moral: Plan A: PC5 what else? Plan B : hit the bank and get that MoTec M400 thing, Plan C : sell the ugly thing (the bike, not the RB3).

He He
__________________
R12S, black, ex Ohlins (now WP), full HPE, RB3

Last edited by peter f; 05-22-2010 at 12:55 AM..
Old 05-22-2010, 12:24 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
Registered
 
peter f's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: greece
Posts: 1,800
PS: forgot to mention that I did the inverse as well > put my RB3 module (using the R12S pipe and slippers maps, a world's first) on that R1...and the bike rips (meaning that my module is rather in good shape).

That said, that 09 R1 (cross plane crank, kitsch "red" frame) is an amazing thing. Dare I say that in low/middle rpm range is waaaaay better than that RR thing (but don't tell that to anyone - WW3 is likely to start).
__________________
R12S, black, ex Ohlins (now WP), full HPE, RB3
Old 05-22-2010, 12:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
No try, do or not do
 
shreddr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,356
Garage
the great thing about all this R-bike tweaking is the general consensus!

it's no wonder we have 600 post long threads about the merits of a particular FI module, when there is little agreement over the function and value of any of them! concerning the R12S it sounds like this is the list of options from cheapest to most expensive.

Stock
Techlusion
FRK
RB-III
PC-V
M-Tec bundle
Motec

I guess the big question is where is the most value, not necessarily HP? I would guess that a complete ignition system like the Motec ought to be able to generate the most HP, but at the most cost and with a huge intellectual property component (you really go to know what you are doing!) while the Techlusion and FRK seem to address the lean fueling due to emission controlling by the ECU, they are certainly not on the order of a turbocharger.

I think I am going to try an RBIII if I can find a tuner.... thoughts?
__________________
2017 R1200GSW Rallye Shreddr Signature Model

Last edited by shreddr; 05-22-2010 at 04:51 AM..
Old 05-22-2010, 04:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
Initials & assault rifle
 
cageyar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Delaware Twp., NJ
Posts: 4,000
Garage
Makes sense because that way, you're working your way down your list.
I predict a move to the PC-V after you try the RBIII.
__________________
2007 R12S | OHLINS | PRO PILOT | AKRA Ti | WOSSNER | FRK | BST | RT A-ARM | BRAKING | WERNER | K&N | RIZOMA | R&G | METZELER
1982 CBX | OLD SCHOOL
1969 H1 | QUESTIONABLE SANITY
Old 05-22-2010, 06:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
 
Registered
 
Droptarotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Creston, BC.
Posts: 2,642
Garage
Jeff;

Are you unhappy with the FRK or do you just want to try something different?

Cheers
__________________
09 HP2 Sport,07 R1200S,05 KTM 640 Adventure,00 KTM 520 EXC,82 R100S,72 Hodaka 125 Wombat
Old 05-22-2010, 09:01 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
Registered
 
fralind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 243
As we discussed views about it, I am of the opinion that your ride each throttle position (10-40%) in the lower gears until the engine no longer continues to rotate not wrong or not, and you measure any lambda values at the elbow openings at the optimal opening time for optimal lambda value set.

Have you Dynos on the individual test runs with values!


Peter, with finished maps, from wherever, they will not achieve optimal results.

A 12 S in a configuration as they go, good sw and a RB 3 and Eliminator, this set on the dyno, (so are about 15 test runs upwards), makes about 135 hp (DIN).

And consumes 6.0 L / 100 Km

Last edited by fralind; 05-22-2010 at 11:08 AM..
Old 05-22-2010, 10:17 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
No try, do or not do
 
shreddr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,356
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Droptarotter View Post
Jeff;

Are you unhappy with the FRK or do you just want to try something different?

Cheers
I love to tinker!

The FRK works great, but I think the RBIII will unlock the full potential of the mods I have made.
__________________
2017 R1200GSW Rallye Shreddr Signature Model
Old 05-22-2010, 11:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
Registered
 
Droptarotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Creston, BC.
Posts: 2,642
Garage
Yeah, me too.

I bought a Booster Plug to give it a try.........loaned it to a buddy and he loved it and would not give it back.......so he ordered me a new one.

My bike has had a Techlusion on it for the last couple of years......and it has been running fine with that.

I disconnected the ground wire of the Techlusion............went for a ride.........the bike ran ok........but not as nice as with the Techlusion.

I then installed the Booster Plug.............the bike seemed like it was starving for fuel and did pull consistantly...........I disconnected the Booster Plug.........and the bike still felt like it was starving for fuel.

I removed the Booster Plug...........re-installed the Techlusion and the bike goes like gangbusters again.

So far I have not had time to do any more reserch as to why this has happened.

Any idea's?

Cheers
__________________
09 HP2 Sport,07 R1200S,05 KTM 640 Adventure,00 KTM 520 EXC,82 R100S,72 Hodaka 125 Wombat
Old 05-22-2010, 12:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #30 (permalink)
Registered
 
Stampertje_35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Netherlands, Heemskerk
Posts: 344
Why the expensive RapidBike III ...
changing the ignition doesn't help (much) it is just fine !
Another 500/1000 RPM higher isn't good for the engine (there's no gain)
The RapidBike I is perfect to make the ideal A/F for our R-type's

Got it on my GS/A (+ Laser headers)
Girlfriend's R1200R got it too (standard exhaust)
and also on the HP2 Sport (+ Full Akrapovic)

Lots of my (boxer) friends here in Holland have edit a RapidBike I
__________________
Jack
R1200S HP2 Sport 03-03-'09 (#1012) ABS,edit;Full Akra+RapidBike 137,3 HP/132,4Nm
R1200GS Adventure '07,WP-EDS(up-dated to EDSII) edit;laser headers+RapidBike
All gone R1100S '01,BBP-chip,K&N,Lasers,no cat 100.2 HP,K100RS 16v '91,R80/7 '78,R60/5 '74
Old 05-22-2010, 01:03 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #31 (permalink)
Do not take too seriously
 
throttlemeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,453
Garage
Peter, just wondering: do you have the F27LMDE12x2 eliminators, or do you have the KRBO2-017 emulator? Might be a big difference.

If I understand correctly, and if I don't I am sure someone will drop by to correct me, that:
- the eliminators will sent a fixed lambda value to the BMS-K when it switches to closed loop, forcing it in a certain state (emergency mapping?)
- the emulator will sent variable lambda value to the BMW-K when it switches to closed loop, based on the mappings and variables set in the RB3, allowing RB3 to also map FI in closed loop.

The latter appears the better option and more flexible.
__________________
BMW R1100S 'Bumble Bee' | HyperPro 3D F&R | motoyoyo clamps | Staintune | some other bits
BMW K1200S 'tri-color ICBM' | WP ESA rebuild to specifications | lots of other bits

http://www.sport-touring.eu | http://eurotravel.photos
Old 05-22-2010, 01:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #32 (permalink)
No try, do or not do
 
shreddr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,356
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampertje_35 View Post
Why the expensive RapidBike III ...
changing the ignition doesn't help (much) it is just fine !
Another 500/1000 RPM higher isn't good for the engine (there's no gain)
The RapidBike I is perfect to make the ideal A/F for our R-type's

Got it on my GS/A (+ Laser headers)
Girlfriend's R1200R got it too (standard exhaust)
and also on the HP2 Sport (+ Full Akrapovic)

Lots of my (boxer) friends here in Holland have edit a RapidBike I
good to know! thanks Jack!
__________________
2017 R1200GSW Rallye Shreddr Signature Model
Old 05-22-2010, 01:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #33 (permalink)
Registered
 
Stampertje_35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Netherlands, Heemskerk
Posts: 344
Edit;

Maybe good to know ... all three bikes don't have O2 sensors anymore ... !
and all three bikes were fine-tuned (A/F) on the dyno
__________________
Jack
R1200S HP2 Sport 03-03-'09 (#1012) ABS,edit;Full Akra+RapidBike 137,3 HP/132,4Nm
R1200GS Adventure '07,WP-EDS(up-dated to EDSII) edit;laser headers+RapidBike
All gone R1100S '01,BBP-chip,K&N,Lasers,no cat 100.2 HP,K100RS 16v '91,R80/7 '78,R60/5 '74
Old 05-22-2010, 01:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #34 (permalink)
Registered
 
peter f's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: greece
Posts: 1,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by throttlemeister View Post
Peter, just wondering: do you have the F27LMDE12x2 eliminators, or do you have the KRBO2-017 emulator? Might be a big difference..
I have the F27LMDE12x2 things. Indeed your line of thought makes perfect sense, BUT:

1. NOBODY can provide an in depth explanation about how exactly the RapidSomething thing works (in relation with BMS-K).

2. Is RapidNothing an open loop system (or subsystem) that could be viewed as a "stand alone system" ? If yes, why bother with what BMS-K does? If not...

You know the thing that makes me crazy with RapidMaybe is that secrecy about function and maps availability (OK, let's say "startup" maps like the ones that are available for PC).

I'll give you a small example: RapidWonder is an Italian product as HPE is. Well, I would expect some decent maps available from Dimsport, at least to advertise worldwide the Italian Job (not the thing with Minis, he he).
__________________
R12S, black, ex Ohlins (now WP), full HPE, RB3
Old 05-22-2010, 09:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #35 (permalink)
Registered
 
peter f's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: greece
Posts: 1,800
PS: I hear The Voice > you idiot > discard that BMS-K thing (and ABS and ANY electronic gizmo), sell the RapidNothing to someone, forget EFI and all that nonsense > put these (the ULTIMATE in carbs) on board and be a happy bunny - although an outlaw (emissions).



He He
__________________
R12S, black, ex Ohlins (now WP), full HPE, RB3
Old 05-22-2010, 10:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #36 (permalink)
Do not take too seriously
 
throttlemeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,453
Garage
I see several maps on the Dimpsport website? (ok, only 2 for the R12S, but still). I would say the difference in maps is not so much secrecy, rather than volume. Dynojet is older and significantly larger.

That said, it should not be much of a problem to collect maps from their dealers for specific setups and make them available.

Your comment about secrecy on function, I do not get though. It is very clear what it can do: alter fuel mapping at any TPS to any value, and (in case of the RB3) alter ignition advance. Dynojet does not tell you more, and neither will tell you what is inside the box and basically let you make your own. I think your comments are more frustration based rather than reality. And let us be real: if I were to have all the problems you described, I would be seriously pissed off. It is not like these kinds of things are cheap, regardless of who makes them, and they better work as advertised.

But don't get your hopes too high with Dynojet. They have their share of problems. Do a search on this forum on the PC3 for the R11S when they just came out with one (starting problems). Or go to some SV/TL1000 forum, and see what they think about Dynojet (massive faulty products). Not exactly confidence inspiring and good advertisement. I'd definitely be weary to be one of the first to try a new product and be their betatester.

I think your problems are caused by incorrect programming/tuning. But if you can't get a good tuner to do a correct setup, the product becomes useless since not many people have their own dyno in their garage. It is the manufacturers job to ensure their customers can be properly helped by properly trained staff in a specific market, or they should not enter that market. But that's just my opinion.
__________________
BMW R1100S 'Bumble Bee' | HyperPro 3D F&R | motoyoyo clamps | Staintune | some other bits
BMW K1200S 'tri-color ICBM' | WP ESA rebuild to specifications | lots of other bits

http://www.sport-touring.eu | http://eurotravel.photos

Last edited by throttlemeister; 05-22-2010 at 11:58 PM..
Old 05-22-2010, 11:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #37 (permalink)
Registered
 
peter f's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: greece
Posts: 1,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by throttlemeister View Post
Your comment about secrecy on function, I do not get though. It is very clear what it can do
Well, although I agree with your comments I would like to point out that there's no CLEAR explanation about why one needs these %@#^%@ L-eliminators and what exactly happens when the BMS-K (or any ECU) is in the close loop working mode (I don't comment the waterproof part of the story for reasons of political correct talking in Forums, he he).

I mean, saying that the RapidThanksButNoThanks can alter ignition/advance et all is one thing....but giving some clear explanations about how this happens in relation/collaboration with the OEM ECU is another animal. For example for the spoof kind of stuff (FRK, BoosterSomething, etc) things are rather clear: they talk lies to IAT and ECU thinks that bike is in North Pole, dense air, rich mixture...etc etc.

On the other hand, how this RB gizmo controls the optimum ATF ratio dynamically? (I suspect that he can't) - see what Tuning Bike 3K (!) "device" is supposedly capable to do (a pro Yamaha tuner, friend of mine, has it....but I'm not impressed after testing it in my R12S - but the wide band L-sensor provided in that kit is impressive).

Rapid Bike by Dimsport Technology - Additional control unit for motorbikes

On the other hand, even Adam Wade (Amazon.com: Motorcycle Fuel Injection Handbook (Motorbooks Workshop) (9780760316351): Adam…) in his Bible about bikes and injections...he's rather silent with regard details of operation concerning aftermarket "tuning" gizmos.

PS: R12S maps available in Dimsport download area are a piece of *****.
__________________
R12S, black, ex Ohlins (now WP), full HPE, RB3
Old 05-23-2010, 01:14 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #38 (permalink)
Do not take too seriously
 
throttlemeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,453
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter f View Post
Well, although I agree with your comments I would like to point out that there's no CLEAR explanation about why one needs these %@#^%@ L-eliminators and what exactly happens when the BMS-K (or any ECU) is in the close loop working mode (I don't comment the waterproof part of the story for reasons of political correct talking in Forums, he he).

I mean, saying that the RapidThanksButNoThanks can alter ignition/advance et all is one thing....but giving some clear explanations about how this happens in relation/collaboration with the OEM ECU is another animal. For example for the spoof kind of stuff (FRK, BoosterSomething, etc) things are rather clear: they talk lies to IAT and ECU thinks that bike is in North Pole, dense air, rich mixture...etc etc.

On the other hand, how this RB gizmo controls the optimum ATF ratio dynamically? (I suspect that he can't) - see what Tuning Bike 3K (!) "device" is supposedly capable to do (a pro Yamaha tuner, friend of mine, has it....but I'm not impressed after testing it in my R12S - but the wide band L-sensor provided in that kit is impressive).

Rapid Bike by Dimsport Technology - Additional control unit for motorbikes

On the other hand, even Adam Wade (Amazon.com: Motorcycle Fuel Injection Handbook (Motorbooks Workshop) (9780760316351): Adam…) in his Bible about bikes and injections...he's rather silent with regard details of operation concerning aftermarket "tuning" gizmos.

PS: R12S maps available in Dimsport download area are a piece of *****.
Peter, that is not a RB exclusive either. Dynojet does not tell you what their O2 eliminators do either. And neither can go into details of the BMS-K, as they don't know... that is BMW territory.

However, with a bit of understand on FI systems, you pretty much know what is going on. Using eliminators, you are basically doing open loop tuning. These things are not active, so the only thing they do is put the system into a fixed position in the standard closed loop map and no adjustments possible.

If you use a system with emulators, or (better?) with a wide-band sensor like I had in my FJR (PC3 wide-band), you can tune both open loop and closed loop as the RB or PC modifies the signal of the lambda sensor fed into the original ECU so it thinks it is doing something it is not to get the expected results.

Really, the theory is not that complicated. Putting it into practice and doing it right is the difficult part.
__________________
BMW R1100S 'Bumble Bee' | HyperPro 3D F&R | motoyoyo clamps | Staintune | some other bits
BMW K1200S 'tri-color ICBM' | WP ESA rebuild to specifications | lots of other bits

http://www.sport-touring.eu | http://eurotravel.photos
Old 05-23-2010, 02:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #39 (permalink)
No try, do or not do
 
shreddr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,356
Garage
i thought it was pretty clear what the difference was between the eliminators and emulators

Rapid Bike AccessoriesLambda/o2 Eliminator
How it works: The Rapid Bike Lambda/o2 eliminators (see example in picture) lock the electric circuit of the lambda probe, by a specific resistance determined by the applications needs indicating its presence.
It will not cause any fault light. It enables the Rapid Bike Mapping to be the resident mapping and not be overwritten by the stock ECU. They are specifically limited to EURO2 ECU applications. With this Rapid Bike Eliminator you have tune Full Open Loop Tuning!

The Rapid Bike Lambda/o2 Emulators (see example in picture) are microprocessors and constantly monitor the LAMBDA SIGNAL and communicates with the stock EURO 3 ECU and eliminates and anomalies. With this Rapid Bike Emulator you have tune Full Open Loop Tuning!

Funnctions: Type 1-2-3: they allow using Racing exhaust systems without Lambda/o2 sensor., which is eliminated by the system for competitive use and they avoid, in some cases, any anomalies identified by the ECU. Indeed the warning light on the instrument panel turns on and a more highly round power supply at very low speed is ensured (between 1,800 and 3,500 rpm from 0 to 20% tps).

Type 4 or higher: beside what above-mentioned for types 1-2-3, they are essential to regulate the functioning also at constant regimes where the lambda probe would compromise the performance increase due to the application of the Rapid Bike control unit in the system.

When there are modifications to the engine, the use of performance filters and Full performance exhaust systems the Lambda /o2 sensor must be removed and electronically replaced to tune optimally for performance and proper engine function.

__________________
2017 R1200GSW Rallye Shreddr Signature Model
Old 05-23-2010, 03:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #40 (permalink)
Reply


 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:17 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.