OT:THIS is a bad day....

[flatbutt]

Five killed in California crash involving 12 motorcycles

Five killed in California crash involving 12 motorcycles - CNN.com

[Guest24]

I heard that they were celebrating the tenth anniversary of their motorcycle club with the run they were on. Tragic is the only word that comes to mind. I heard that one of the cage drivers was DUI.

[lightfighter]

dark day indeed

and there is every flavor of nasty in the comments under the article.

[throttlemeister]

Talk about having a bad day. Would love to get my hands on the little prick in the Civic that caused the havoc.

[signit98]

They are out in force, looking for him... the mexican driver who crashed into the group was arrested under the suspicion of a DUI and his passenger (girlfriend) died at the scene.

These guys are (were) friendly, well meaning Harley riders (mostly) who were out on a fun-run... the local motorcycle community is in an uproar and it's fair to say that the driver of the Honda Civic will be better off it the police gets to him first!

[PFFOG]

Condolences to family and friends, latest reports say the driver that hit the bikes may have been intoxicated. And those at the front of the pack paid a price for actions that went on around them.


But, I have to play evils advocate here. Not that the riders were at fault legally, but they could have possibly prevented it from happening.

Riding in a group is often more dangerous than riding alone.
EVERYBODY, should make it easy for faster traffic to pass, 2,4 wheels or 18 wheels, does not matter. As soon as someone catches you, at the first opportunity a slight slowdown and yield to the right, so they can continue is not only polite, but is common sense. And groups should open up gaps if they are being overtaken to allow a vehicle to pass safely, and not have to make a pass of a 1/4 mile long mass of 8' long motorcycles.

I have encountered several "rolling roadblocks" on the road, both driving and riding, and many times the pack creates a hazard to all, with a "pack" mentality.

Latest example: This summer while I was in a car, I encountered a group of 3 trailer hauling touring bikes riding single file, 10 mph under the limit. They were constantly closing and stretching but never left room for another vehicle to pass one rider at a time. I finally got a long stretch and pulled out to pass, hoping they would open spaces for me, to make a safe pass for ALL of us, no such luck (as expected). I had already downshifted in anticipation, so I just let loose the 280 hp and blew by the lead bike at about 95, much too fast for my liking and the safety of all, but the alternative was to slow down and continue to follow them at 10 under.

Motorcyclists should never ride like they are a motorhome caravan, or they may suffer similar consequences.

[bradzdotcom]

this is being covered quite thoroughly in our local papers, since it's a san diego thing.
so far, the driver of the SUV that plowed through the bikes is said to have NOT been drinking at all. He tried to pull to the right shoulder because of the 100 mph honda coming at him, lost control and went sideways into the bikes coming the other way.

i agree with PFfog, in that riding side by side in a group snake is asking for trouble. single-file, staggered has sure been safer for me over the years, especially when you need to suddenly get the flock out of the way.

[Guest24]

Brad, it's prolly not the first time a Harley parade has turned into a dark event. Does MSF talk about the dangers in bunching up. This happened to four of my friends coming back from SC on a Sunday morning. The lead biker was not focused and ran into the rear of a cage that had come to a stop awaiting a left turn. The out three chain reactioned into the rear also.

[slowrider]

Latest example: This summer while I was in a car, I encountered a group of 3 trailer hauling touring bikes riding single file, 10 mph under the limit. They were constantly closing and stretching but never left room for another vehicle to pass one rider at a time. I finally got a long stretch and pulled out to pass, hoping they would open spaces for me, to make a safe pass for ALL of us, no such luck (as expected). I had already downshifted in anticipation, so I just let loose the 280 hp and blew by the lead bike at about 95, much too fast for my liking and the safety of all, but the alternative was to slow down and continue to follow them at 10 under.

I have to admit I wondered if the circumstances were possibly similar. I recently came up on a pack of bikes doing their Sunday cruise. 10 mph under, but I know there's a passing lane coming up and I'll wait to get by them (the slower traffic are supposed to keep right). Instead of keeping right, they stay in the passing lane, and a couple of riders in the back stay in the slow lane to keep traffic from passing on the right.

I asked my cruiser friends about this at work the next day. They kind of sighed and said yeah they sometimes do that to keep a car from getting caught in the middle of the group.

[bradzdotcom]

nail~ i'm not a MSF instructor anymore, but i vagely remember that 20 bikes can take up the same space as 2 semis, and when packed together, side-by-side (not recommended) they can be very difficult to pass. in most cases, you have to get around the whole troup at once.

the other problem is that when they travel in groups like that: they tend to stay below the speed limit, which is very frustrating to those behind.
staggered "you take left, i'll take right" leaving space in between, was taught as the safest way.

[Guest24]

I guess that singling up and waiving the car by would be out of the question, huh?

[bradzdotcom]

i dunno. wasn't there.
this was certainly tragic and the missing honda driver could shed some different light on it.
personally, i've been frustrated both in the van and bike by long spread out lines of side-by-side.
in the van you just gotta suffer.
on the bike, you just figure f-'em and carve in and out without disrupting their pattern. they don't like it, but not enough to pace-up and discuss it with me.

one guy i do NOT ride with anymore was working through one of those parades with me, when he tucked in behind a guy on a big dresser who took offense to the close-ness and did a little brake check/tap and a wagging finger.
my riding idiot companion flips up the shield, screams "YOU SUCK", swings out, got ahead and to the left of the dresser and did an actually rather nice nose wheelie for a few seconds.
pulled back next to the guy and said "THAT's a brake check!" and rode off.

i wisely shrugged my shoulders and rode with the HD guys for a few minutes, as though i had no idea who that idiot was.

[Rapid Dog]

...can't we just all get along...and the doubled up baggers let us by...

[jduke]

When we leave Daytona after Bikeweek, lines of cruisers in full parade mode are in the left and middle lanes, never the right lane. Steady 55 to 60 mph and spread out stagger.
They seem to enjoy it when we weave in between them. They are always waving "#1" at us....

[SergioK]

I see groups like this every once in a while. It seems as the groups get larger the collective 'riding IQ' seems to diminish. This actually is the reason I was at first apprehensive about riding on some of the TC rides but then realized (after witnessing a key tossing contest) that most of us guys do use our brains when riding.

[1100s nut]

I agree with the above posts. I refuse to ride in a formation. To me, the big thing is....if you come up on debris you have no were to go. Go to left you are in on-coming traffic go right you are into your buddy-depending on position. Formation is for the thunder birds. I do feel sorry for the victims and their families.

Lane

[bradzdotcom]

there are a few bike cops on the forum, maybe they can shed some light, but of the ones i've spoken with, the theory is that if there's something in your part of the lane while you're shoulder to shoulder, you're supposed to back off and pull in behind your partner or in the other lane to get around said obstacle.
never made sense to me, but there ya go.
the CHP around here wear simple shirts and long pants for protection. no atgatt there.