2003 Boxster S w/new IMS bearing

BoxerBuyer · 01-27-2013, 07:26 PM

I'm looking at a 2003 Boxster S that is said to have a new ceramic IMS bearing and Kevlar clutch. I believe the new bearing was installed after the original bearing failed. The car has 52K and is very clean. Service records prior to the new bearing, fluids, seals are not available. The non-negotiable price is 21K. Is this a good deal? Is a car with a known replacement IMS bearing a better risk than the same car with the original bearing? Thanks. This is my first post.

JFP in PA · 03:24 AM

No, for multiple reasons: First, if the OEM IMS bearing failed, the car would have a new engine, not a replacement bearing; you cannot upgrade and engine that had a failed IMS bearing, it would be full of metal. We have also seen cars claiming to have IMS upgrades that do not, demand to see the records for the swap. Secondly, no service records is a red flag, if the owner will not negotiate, walk away............

steveng1993 · 01-28-2013, 04:06 AM

21k seems too high to me.

recycled sixtie · recycled sixtie's Garage

I would not rush into buying a Box. Do not buy the first one you see. Look at other Boxsters first. The above posters have good points. This a buyers' market. Take your time. Non negotiable? Ridiculous. And for sure when find one you like get a Pre Purchase inspection done. Walk away from this one....

BoxerBuyer · 01-28-2013, 06:09 AM

I have looked at other Boxers and this is the best I've seen...at least cosmetically. The price seems in line here in the southeast U.S. However, I appreciate the advice from those with experience as I have zero. I believe I am going to get a PPI, talk to the mechanic who did the engine work, and look closely at the receipts for the parts used in the repair. When I have more information, I'll be asking again for your opinions. Thanks!

mikefocke · 07:31 AM

$21k is a staggering price. But then dealer asking prices are.

For comparison I sold a 2001 Boxster S with 58k miles needing nothing and with brand new (200 miles) PS2 N-rated tires complete with lots of documentation, service records, manuals, tools, spare parts, etc for $13.5 in the summer. Adding $1500 for the top and glove box the 2003 has gets you to $15k. New clutch $1k more though the fact that it is not to OEM specs concerns me. IMS $1.5k more That gets us to $3,500 off the asking price and it is January, a traditional slow month and a model introduction (981) has occurred between the time I sold mine and now making the 2003 another model older. I thus couldn't justify more than $17.5k but that is me and the way I figure.

Then there is the issue of latent damage which is possible if the IMS was truly bad enough for someone to detect it as opposed to just replacing the IMS bearing while doing the clutch. JFP sees lots of them. Debris that got anywhere within the oiling system is bad news and can cost you the entire engine. And it can slowly move around so it finds a fatal spot long after the bearing is replaced.

Was the oil pan also removed, examined and cleaned? Was the IMS done just as a precaution or after some symptom? Those are questions to ask the mechanic.

Don't fall in love with the first one you see, there are at least a thousand more for sale right now.

s_morrison57 · 01-28-2013, 07:47 AM

BoxerBuyer
No service record is a big red flag and 21K seems like a Canadian price, by that I mean more money than in the States.
Update your profile and put in your location, maybe someone local to you will have some info on good cars and bad cars in your area.
Finn

Phillip Jones · Phillip Jones's Garage

Hey, I am here in B'ham as well. I bought a 2001 Boxster S 6 months ago with 34,000 miles, all service records and it was loaded with 13,000 in options. No engine problems of any kind ever. As close to a 10 cosmetically as it gets. That said I did the IMS/RMS/clutch anyway as a precaution. You are welcome to come see it so you can compare. I paid 17,000 for it.

txhokie4life · txhokie4life's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

No, for multiple reasons: First, if the OEM IMS bearing failed, the car would have a new engine, not a replacement bearing; you cannot upgrade and engine that had a failed IMS bearing, it would be full of metal. We have also seen cars claiming to have IMS upgrades that do not, demand to see the records for the swap. Secondly, no service records is a red flag, if the owner will not negotiate, walk away............

Not true 100% of the time.

We have rebuilt a pair of engines that lost their IMSs.

You have to replace the entire IMS tube and the oil pump and then
have the block and all oil passages cleaned.

Not trivial -- but still cheaper than a OEM remanufactured engine.

Mike

BoxerBuyer · 01-29-2013, 11:40 AM

Thanks to all of you for your advice. I am new to this car and brand. The one part I'm having trouble understanding is the issue of price. Many of you have remarked that 21K is "too much" for a 2003 Boxster S w/apprx. 51K miles. However, when I look at sites like cargurus.com, edmunds.com, autotrader.com, etc. The price seems to actually be below market. If the price for this particular car is high, where do I find lower priced examples? Also, assuming the ceramic bearing and new clutch were done correctly, then that would seem to add value to the car as items that would not need to be addressed for a while.

mikefocke · 01-29-2013, 01:18 PM

You are looking at asking prices, not ones actually paid. I bought two Boxsters and never paid within $2k of the asking price and sometimes saved even more by comparison shopping, buying from a motivated seller, buying privately, etc. Took a while and may not be possible in AL as opposed to DC (major metro area with lots of P-cars available) where I was doing my buying.

If you look at my post above, I added value for the IMS assuming it was done as prevention and not as the result of a true failure which deposited debris into the engine. Yes it can be rebuilt but all too few are done pulling the block completely apart and out of the car and thus the latent problem worry that JFP is describing. TX is describing a process few do and even fewer do right.

chamilun · 01-29-2013, 03:08 PM

that car should be around 17 or 18k.

BoxerBuyer · 01-29-2013, 03:13 PM

Sound advice for sure. The market is smaller in AL. There does not seem to be a lot of Boxsters in Atlanta either. I'm going to get a PPI and try and negotiate a better price. The seller has also offered up the reciepts he has for the parts used in the engine. I have not looked at his documentation yet because I'm still deciding if the car is a waste of time or not.

gregwils · gregwils's Garage

If you do an advanced search on eBay for 02-04 Boxsters and select Completed Listings, you will see that for auctions that are ended, bidding stalls in the price ranges people here are suggesting are appropriate. There are loads of Boxsters out there, you may want to consider a wider search radius to look at more cars. Patience will award you a better car and a better ownership experience.

http://motors.completed.shop.ebay.com/items/?MotorsShowItems&_ipg=50&_sadis=200&Transmission=-1&_sacat=6001&Model=Boxster&_dmpt=US_Cars_Trucks&_fpos=&_sofindtype=21&Make=Porsche&_yrh=2004&fisc=c6001&_yrl=2002&_sop=12&_nkw=&LH_Complete=1&_fsct=&guest=1

Phillip Jones · Phillip Jones's Garage

The smart move for you to make as regards that car is to walk away. The IMS failure opened pandora's box so to speak. Why risk going into dangerous waters when there are so many available? I bought mine on ebay and paid 1200 to have it shipped from new hampshire in an enclosed container. So many more to choose from that way just make sure you are dealing with someone who has a lot of feedback and only if it is 100%. An 2001 s sold for 18000 in mobile about 4 months ago with only 18000 miles and no history of issues. You can still order a PPI on the car no matter where it is, or find one close enough to go see.

thom4782 · thom4782's Garage

$21K is right in line with Kelly Blue Book for sale by a private party in Alabama. So the real issue is what is the mechanical condition of the car.

A couple of thoughts... You;ll need to confirm whether the IMSB actually failed or whether the repair shop found it was wearing out when they replaced it. Many owners replace the bearing as a preventative measure and find the original bearing was near the end of its life.

If the IMSB actually failed, then be very cautious. If it was merely wearing out, then conform if the IMSB was replaced using the LN Retrofit (ceramic) bearing. If yes, then get a complete PPI from a reputable source. If all is well then, you'll have to decide whether you think the price is fair or want to invest the additional time searching for a better deal.

Best of luck

chamilun · 01-30-2013, 01:12 PM

as owners, we all want our cars to be worth what KBB says theyre worth. But when buying, we want them at the 'trade-in' number. Take the average of trade in and private party value and you should be right where it will sell.

But as others have said, make sure you drive a couple. The right one will literally jump out at you. Things to look out for: rattles, power, smoothness, cabin noise, features (ie heated seats, etc).

Personally, I could care less about maintenance history. A trashed boxster will tell u everything once u turn the key

BoxerBuyer · 01-30-2013, 03:15 PM

I spoke with the mechanic today that did the work. He stated he is an independent German auto mechanic. To be honest...he sounded honest. When he got the car the bearing had failed. He gave me a detailed description of all he did and said he was assisted by one of his friends that works at one of the most respected German car dealerships in the city. He says he totally disassembled the engine, replaced two pistons, RMS, added ceramic bearings, etc. He stated that if I ever had a problem with the engine that was related to the rebuild he would make it right. I know everyone is going to say that is what they would say but he really didn't have to offer any assurances. I've driven the car and it runs like a scalded cat. Very smooth, good shifts, tight steering, all of the good stuff and none of the bad. I'm still looking for a better car for sale.

BoxerBuyer · 01-30-2013, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chamilun

as owners, we all want our cars to be worth what KBB says theyre worth. But when buying, we want them at the 'trade-in' number. Take the average of trade in and private party value and you should be right where it will sell.

But as others have said, make sure you drive a couple. The right one will literally jump out at you. Things to look out for: rattles, power, smoothness, cabin noise, features (ie heated seats, etc).

Personally, I could care less about maintenance history. A trashed boxster will tell u everything once u turn the key

Chamilun, thanks for your post. You are right on target with pricing. The car has no rattles, spotless interior, and every option I would want except cruise control. It does have heated seats

Ronbo · 01-30-2013, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxerBuyer

He stated that if I ever had a problem with the engine that was related to the rebuild he would make it right. I know everyone is going to say that is what they would say but he really didn't have to offer any assurances.

He may be perfectly sincere, but without a warranty in writing his statement means nothing.