Newbie here, few questions

[Cjpimentel1]

Hey everyone, just new to the Porsche world and my 1st ever porsche and had a few questions. Got my 2001 Boxster S 4 months ago (lovin it!)it was a garage queen and babied. Aftermarket gembella kit, H & R coilovers, upgraded rims and 36000 kms on it. On top of that it wasn't on the road for about 6 months. So typical me, i drove it quite hard the 1st few days and eventually it overheated. 1st the radiator just needed to get flushed, 2nd time around, water pump and thermostat crapped out on me (had them replaced and radiator too), and 3rd time the oil cooler broke (replaced as well). So far it drives like a dream. Though bleeding the radiator (burping?) was a beotch, 4 days. So i bought a air bleeder through amazon.
But, after rummaging through all the forums, i ran into the IMS one. And honestly, it scares the crap out of me. My question is this, do i need to do the retrofit? I was thinking of purchasing the IMS Guardian AND the retrofit, but the shop i have the car done at said it wasn't necessary. Secondly, what's the proper procedure of bleeding/burping the radiator?

HELP! Can't sleep over it!

[Cjpimentel1]

my baby!

[dmairspotter]

That looks pretty nice!

I'm in the same boat on the IMS. I'm playing Russian Roulette until I can't stand the suspense any more, then I'm going to put in the LN bearing. I won't be installing the guardian. Figure if I do the bearing I'll have the problem licked for the foreseeable future.

[recycled sixtie]

There is lots of info on internet re ims failure. My 02 cents worth. I bought the IMS Guardian about a year ago and don't think about it too much anymore. For me putting in new parts to replace functional parts is not appropriate.
Only U can make that decision.Hope this helps!When the clutch breaks that is when I will give it the full treatment - new Ims, rms etc.

[Cjpimentel1]

dmairspotter, thanks!

The only reason why I would like the IMS Guardian is due to some posts which stated even after the IMS upgrade, there were some incidents where the IMS bearing still gave out. I was poking around flat6's website earlier and a complete engine with upgrades cost almost as much as a new boxster. Scary.

Secondly, i"m of two minds with LN bearing as well, I've done nothing the past 2 weeks but read, and re-read the forums about IMS. The one thing about the LN bearing is IF it gives, you can't get the bearing itself, you have to get the whole set. One of the members posted about it on one of the forums. Now, the Pelican Retrofit on the other hand, according to what i've read, IF the bearing gives, you can buy it separately, plus it costs less. So now the question is, which of the two?

[Cjpimentel1]

recycled sixtie, thanks for the input!

I have to agree though, that having the Guardian would take soooo much worries off of me. I'll most likely get it in a few minutes. lol.

Like you said, at least i won't have to worry about it. BUT, wouldn't hurt to change it to be sure. The only dilemma that i now have is which of the 2 options, the LN or Pelican? any thoughts?

[mikefocke]

You have several options.

One is the LN option which uses a better bearing, and a different lubrication method than the one Porsche used and that seems to be a problem. The LN bearing also has an established installer network and excellent instructions that have been updated through multiple revisions as each trouble report has been received. It has multiple years of history and multiple thousands of installs and publishes data on the very few failures.

Two the Pelican one. Same basic bearing that Porsche uses, same lubrication method. Fewer installations. Cheaper.

Three. Do nothing and change your oil frequently relying on the statistics of how few IMS failures do occur to protect you. Of course this can be both the cheapest and most expensive approach.

There is supposedly a new Guardian (cheaper) to be available when the patent is approved.

[Cjpimentel1]

Thanks Mike.

Few questions:

The new Guardian that's coming out, is that the one everyones calling Jr.?
And is it true that even LN posted on their website that they too recommend to change their bearings after 30,000?

Thanks!

[UNYboater]

I like your car! Good color choice...silver is sooo over-rated. (bring on the comments, guys!)

I also have an '01 S and lost a lot of sleep after reading the same threads that have you concerned! Mine was driven fairly regularly & had 78k on it when I bought it. I have done 4 Mobil-1 oil changes since then (every 3000 miles) but am dropping back to every 5000 miles now. I see nothing in the oil to worry me. When it's time to do a clutch, I'll do the IMS bearing & the RMS, too (even though mine's not leaking yet). In the meantime, I'm just enjoying it & not worry.
My gut feeling reading these is that the less-used cars may be more prone to the IMSB failure; that makes sense considering the oil sits longer, the seals sit & maybe dry out more & the temp isn't rising & falling keeping the seal perhaps less pliable. My first Boxster ('97 with 24k) was more of a concern to me than the one I have now. With the fewer miles on yours, I think I'd be more concerned as you seem to be. I personally like the Pelican setup but I plan on driving it 10k-15k miles per year; if you will be letting it sit for long periods maybe the LN is a better option.

[Cjpimentel1]

UNYboater,

Hey thanks for the compliment! I agree with the silver comment! I do love red, and that's what really attracted me to the Boxster. It was waayyyy in the back of the used car lot collecting dust when i saw it. Yeah, i haven't gone and actually replaced the bearing yet, though i should have. The engine came out last week to get a top overhaul, cylinder head gasket trouble. Kept on overheating. So now i have whole new coolant system. sigh. In any case i'll probably go with the LN, plus probably change the oil every 3000 to 5000.
Again thanks for the input!

[ronster]

Originally Posted by Cjpimentel1

dmairspotter, thanks!

The only reason why I would like the IMS Guardian is due to some posts which stated even after the IMS upgrade, there were some incidents where the IMS bearing still gave out. I was poking around flat6's website earlier and a complete engine with upgrades cost almost as much as a new boxster. Scary.

Secondly, i"m of two minds with LN bearing as well, I've done nothing the past 2 weeks but read, and re-read the forums about IMS. The one thing about the LN bearing is IF it gives, you can't get the bearing itself, you have to get the whole set. One of the members posted about it on one of the forums. Now, the Pelican Retrofit on the other hand, according to what i've read, IF the bearing gives, you can buy it separately, plus it costs less. So now the question is, which of the two?

If either of those bearings "give" you won't be worrying about just replacing the bearing. The idea behind the Guardian is you have time to shut the motor off before it grenades, have the car trucked to a mechanic, have the oil drained to see how much metal is in it and non destructive tests done to the motor to determine if it is the IMS.
If you really want to keep the car put the $499 for the Guardian towards the LN ceramic bearing which outlasts the metal one's 5:1. LN has had three of their bearings fail (at least known one's).

[UNYboater]

Originally Posted by Cjpimentel1

Secondly, what's the proper procedure of bleeding/burping the radiator?

Wayne's write-up is great; he posted it here:
Boxster Coolant Replacement
His book is the best...pick one up!

[Phillip Jones]

Funny, I wanted a red one, but now that I have this silver one I wouldn't trade it for the red one. Why? Have to see it at sunrise or sunset to know. It's the way silver takes on other colors, much like a mirror. But on to the real subject here. I posted a series of threads recently about my IMS questions and subsequently upgrade. After reading one too many horror srory I decided to do the RMS/IMS ceramic upgrade/clutch. As it turned out none of it was necessary but I couldn't enjoy the car knowing that my 20k could be a boat anchor in the blink of an eye. So I spent the 2800 bucks and yes that's a lot of money but I have the peace of mind knowing I'm done with it. I did get lucky and mine was the double row bearing. Mine had 34,000 miles on it when I bought it btw.

[mikefocke]

But how long you gonna keep the car Phillip? Even LN says you aren't necessarily done and may need the bearing again replaced based on mileage. And in theory, any rotating part can fail so even the LN one could ... not that many have. And any other part that fails can dump debris into the bearing and also take out the bearing. Just saying the possibilities are endless and there are many more known failure points in the engine as in any engine. I think something like 24 have been identified in the M96. Not that most engines will ever see even one, just that nothing this complicated and made to a price point is ever going to be perfect.


CPJ...There is a simplified version of the Guardian that Jake has spoken openly about. Coming soon I presume bogged down by legal issues like patents (It can take a year or more).

The last LN replacement interval I saw recommended was 50-60k or 4-5 years.

[thom4782]

Mike has presented the 'IMSB" case well. Here's my thinking with respect to my car.

I have an 01S with 101K miles on it. It still has the Porsche bearing in it. My concern is low because IMSB failures tend to occur in low mileage cars. And my oil changes show no metal debris in the filter. That said, I intend to keep my S for a long, long time. Therefore, I will replace the IMSB soon. When I do, I will use the LN bearing because it does hold up far better than the Porsche one. The only question in my mind is which LN bearing to use.

Right now, it's recommended that the currently available LN bearing be inspected at 50K or 60K miles even though the failure rate is almost nil. Jake Raby of Flat 6 Innovations mentioned a couple of weeks ago in another forum that there will be a newly designed IMSB bearing available starting around February 2013. It's supposed to be install it and forget it. It will cost twice as much.

Thus, the hard question for me is do I use the current design with an almost flawless record and inspect at 150K miles or do I install the so-called bullet proof option with a smaller track record and hope its everything it's supposed to be.

PS: I get the sense that the majority of LN bearing failures were due to something else breaking in the engine first. I also get the sense that less than a handful of LN bearings self destructed. Maybe other people have a better read on the LN statistics.

[Phillip Jones]

I plan on keeping this car for as long as I can make it last, 200,000 miles or more I hope. My 1992 toyota 4runner has 222,000 and is still going strong. Yes I know it's a toyota and the porsche is a race car pretty much. But I do see high mileage ones on ebay all the time and I really felt that the only real disaster waiting to happen was the IMS, especially since mine was low miles, lady driven, and stored in the winter. I am sure that you are right though Mike, there are so many other things and obviously you are the true mechanic and I do just easy stuff. But all in all I sleep better at night now and I enjoy the car a whole lot more now. I do plan on replacing the IMS again when I do the clutch.

[Meirschwartz]

" I did get lucky and mine was the double row bearing.t when I bought it btw.[/QUOTE]

hi Phillip.
just out of curiosity, what makes you think that the 2 row is better then one?

[Phillip Jones]

The info I read on the LN website stating they have had zero failures with the double row ceramic bearing. They state they have had a handful of failures with the single row. So it seems better to me to have the double row bearing, but obviously with a 2001 S I had to use whatever it already had.

[Meirschwartz]

Originally Posted by Phillip Jones

The info I read on the LN website stating they have had zero failures with the double row ceramic bearing. They state they have had a handful of failures with the single row. So it seems better to me to have the double row bearing, but obviously with a 2001 S I had to use whatever it already had.

Gotcha.
Wasn't awer of that info. As far as I know, they had very few failures mostly related to other parts of the engine failing and contaminating the bearing.
So I guess I'm not as lucky as you. My bearing will be here Friday, and it's a single row.
But like you said with, the 01 you get what you have.