IMS Failure Paranoia

[Miguel Antonett]

OK, I just changed the oil & filter on the 07 Cayman S (after the usual 3K miles) and everyting looks OK clean; oil and oil filter totally clean from particles... the car has 55K miles of street/track use on it and runs great.

So, for how long should I keep the subject paranoia?

A general concurrence here is that if it makes the first 50K miles w/o failure we're home free. Comments?

[Rot 911]

I quit worrying about a month after I bought my Boxster. Yes it's a crap shoot that the IMS might fail, but the odds are much greater that it won't. I'll think about replacing it when I replace the clutch. Until then, I will continue to check my oil and filter and enjoy driving the car.

[big911fan]

I have an '06 Boxster S. I change oil every 2-3K with Motul 8100 X-cess 5w40, cut my filter open for inspection, and have an oil analysis done every oil change.

Everything has been fine but I don't think the paranoia will ever go away until I sell the vehicle. I'm totally disgusted with Porsche and refuse to overlook this problem as simply "all cars have their problems". How many cars trash their engines at the alleged 5% rate that cost $15- $20K to repair?

In fact, we both have the third iteration of the IMS bearing that requires a complete tear down to repair. Not just a "simple" bearing replacement at maybe
$3K.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.... we now have a class action suit to back up our paranoia. Interesting that the suit only covers up to 2005. The class action attorneys maybe want to save something for the future!

[recycled sixtie]

I understand how you feel but I had the Ims guardian installed a year ago and I don't really think much more about it anymore. I have had my 2001 Boxster base 2 years and already I am plotting my next car - a 2009 or newer Cayman which does not have the ims in it. I don't see getting anything for a couple of years but I understand your concern........

[big911fan]

By the time the IMS Guardian gives you a warning it's too late. You already have the problem. In my case it's not an easily correctable problem like on the cars up to 2005. It's a very expensive disassembly to repair the bearing at anywhere from $10-$20K depending on severity.

How many cars have to have their water pumps and a major engine bearing replaced at 40K miles as a routine maintenance item? That effectively means I have maybe 40K miles before facing a huge repair bill if I want to act preventively.

How many cars need to be torn apart to replace those items (at least the IMS bearing)? It's just very frustrating that we pay a premium for the Porsche name and reputation and accept their faults as part of the "ownership experience".

What happened to building near bullet proof, reliable, long lasting cars? Or at least ones worth fixing that have a decent resale value. I think all pre-2009 Boxster and 996 owners have paid dearly for this Porsches disaster.

[mikefocke]

Have you been hearing about a lot of 3rd generation IMS failures? I sure haven't. Not saying they can't fail, any moving part can especially something that rubs against another. Good golly, you can go broke replacing parts on any engine if you are looking at "could it fail". Last I checked LN had sold about 10 3rd gen IMSs but no idea why they were purchased.

[big911fan]

Virtually everything I've read says that it's a good idea to replace the water pump and IMS bearing around 40k miles. Particularly when doing a clutch job. If that's not a preventative change I don't know what is. Have you read Issue 97 of Total 911 from? There's an article written in collaboration with Hartech (the UK's leading Porsche engine rebuilder). Their technical director is a former GP engine builder.

They say the same thing. The only way to AVOID an expensive engine replacement or rebuild is to preventively replace the IMS bearing.

I'm just not in your camp on this. I can't/won't defend Porsche for a totally deficient design that they wouldn't even stand behind until the class action suite made them.

The 2006 through 2008 design will fail. Maybe just not at the same rate. A bad design is still a bad design and I won't defend Porsche.

[Steve986]

Having a 2001 I have reason to fear an IMS failure, and that paranoia ruins much of my pleasure.

My Suburban has 150,000 miles on it, almost 5 times the mileage of my Porsche. Still, I'd feel way more secure in it on a long trip than I would with my Boxster of 38,000 miles by a long shot.

Did a 6 hour trip last week in my Boxster, spent about half the drive with the IMS on my mind. That sucks.

Any other car with 38,000 miles is a "just broke-in" engine, but it's time to replace the IMS! (and let's do the RMS and clutch while we're at it). That's crazy talk for a low mileage car! It would make more sense to sell the car... or just take my chances with the "old" IMS. Either way the looming IMS issue takes it's toll. If I had it to do all over again... I don't know... maybe I'd pass on the Boxster.

S

[recycled sixtie]

Not wanting to be ignorant/arrogant but prospective Boxster buyers should do their homework and research before you buy a Boxster. There are a ton of articles on the internet such as here, Rennlist forums and 986 forum. MikeFocke has done plenty and much credit should go to these folks that help others.

Worst case scenario is the buyer who does not do any research before buying a Boxster and expecting it to be cheap to run. Those few that don't research and end up with ims failure are surprised that it happened to them.

I fortunately did all my homework before buying my 2001 Box base and am perfectly happy with the result. I am not of the camp that replaces parts just in case they fail.
Most of my time is spent around the city and within 20 miles of the city. A yearly 4 hour drive to the mountains I consider worth the risk. I must admit driving our 11 yo Camry I don't think about failure on a long trip. The same age Boxster does not worry me either - if a problem occurs I just deal with it.

[Fly911]

I don´t think anyone should have an IMS paranoia, but an IMS awareness. I think the tread starter can relax, on the 2007 models the IMS issues have been adressed from the factory. Also the fact that the car is tracked, is good for preventin IMS failure. Most IMS failures are on low miles cars that are babied and driven "carefully" The M96 and M97 engines should not be driven under 3000 rpm, as the chain tension on the intermediate shaft is then too low.This in turn may cause IMS failure. As soon as the engine has reached operating temperature, it should be reved and driven hard, all the way up to the red line! Put-putting around town at low rpm would kill it...

[Miguel Antonett]

I'm with you, just wanted to hear some opinions. I'm a 911 - air cooled - guy and trust the brand blindly since my early age - looong time ago - riding with my dad on his 356s. It amazes me how certain individuals get so against a brand due to a sub-suppliers poor quality product - as a bearing. I've had 9 different P-cars throughout the years, all driven hard frequently, and actually own a 930 (20+ years) and the Cayman S. Very different machines but both great cars.

I appreciate you guys feedback.

Regardless, There is no substiitute!

[derfo]

Before I bought my Boxster S 2002, I did a lot of research into a number of cars. I narrowed it down to 3 in the end. The Porsche won out. This was 3 years ago and I was well aware of the IMS issue. My car is driven 6 months of the year and then stored over winter. This time round it will be on the road in July. I never think about the IMS until I see it on the forum. My Boxster is taken to peak revs every day I drive it, I hit the limiter a couple of times when I am driving hard. The oil is changed every 4000 miles or before I lay it up for the winter. In fact before I lay it up, I give it a good thrashing revs wise and change the oil and filter for the over winter storage. It also stays on charge for 6 months with a Ctec charger. It must take the edge off the driving experience if your thinking about the IMS. What must be borne in mind I suppose, is that as people we are all very different, not all of us are hands on either, which makes a difference. To what level we are hands on thats another consideration. In the not too distant future I am going to do a 3.6 or 3.8 upgrade. What I mean by that is, the engine will come out and be relined to the bigger size. I intend to do all the work myself, that is after my blocks come back from LN engineering.

[Nostril Cheese]

Originally Posted by Fly911

]Most IMS failures are on low miles cars that are babied and driven "carefully"

This. I'd also add that infrequent oil change intervals are a culprit. The IMS failures I have encountered were on either cars driven lightly or ones with black dirty oil.

The IMS failure rate has been really overblown by certain people.

[Steve986]

I did my research too! My conclusion at the time was that the IMS issue only affects a very small percentage of cars, 95% won't have a failure. But then I found this forum! Damn! and with that went my security.

Just human nature I guess. If enough people act afraid it becomes quite contagious, the facts be damned.. kinda' like global warming!

My Miata of 17years wasn't interesting enough to warrant too much forum reading, so I never worried... just drove the hell out of it (very fun little car, BTW).

On a more positive note: Last night my 10 year old son and I took a drive with the top down. At a stop light a car full of teenagers gave us the thumbs up! My kid was very proud. That kind of stuff never happened in the Miata.

[Miguel Antonett]

Just like certain philosophers say: "The things that worry you the most are the things that will never happen".

[Steve986]

Yes, we should all listen to Ben Franklin, “Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight.”

[Phillip Jones]

I got tired of worrying about my considerable investment suddenly being scrap metal. It was tough shelling out the money but I went ahead and did the IMS/clutch/RMS upgrade. I'm glad I did. I can enjoy the car so much more now. I plan on keeping it as long as I can make it last. 2001 Boxster S 37,000 miles

[Nostril Cheese]

Originally Posted by Steve986

Yes, we should all listen to Ben Franklin, “Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight.”

He also said "A fool and his money are soon parted"

[thom4782]

IMHO, dirty or moisture contaminated oil is the most common root cause of failed IMS bearings. My theory goes like this.

The original IMS seal degrades the longer it is in contact with degraded oil. When the seal degrades, it develops small leaks and the oil mixes with the bearing grease. The combination looses its ability to lubricate the bearing. The ensuing friction causes the bearing to fail. If I'm close in my theory, it would explain is why cars with high mileage intervals between oil changes or lightly driven cars that accumulate moisture see more bearing failures.

In light or my theory, one can take two actions to lower the rate of IMS bearing failure. Change the oil frequently, i.e., every 3 to 5 thousand miles is one. The other is to make sure the car is driven frequently enough at operating temperature to less the amount of moisture in the oil.

If I were buying an older car with low miles, I would upgrade the IMS bearing just because I wouldn't know whether the bearing seal was in good shape or not. My 01S DD has had it oil changed every 5k and is driven every day. At 105K miles, I think the seals are probably in good enough shape that I'll do the IMS upgrade when I change the clutch -- probably at 125K.

[Miguel Antonett]

^^^ +1..."At 105K miles, I think the seals are probably in good enough shape that I'll do the IMS upgrade when I change the clutch -- probably at 125K."

I believe that with 100K+ miles w/o a bearings issue = you're home free on that matter.