Lamenting Our No-Longer Affordable Hobby

[onewhippedpuppy]

In a bit of information that will surprise absolutely nobody, I enjoy shopping Craigslist for cars. It's not that I really need any more, I just like looking. But it struck me yesterday when shopping used Porsches, there really aren't any affordable choices anymore in a P-car. A minty 924S or 944 is a $10k car. A decent 986 is a $10k car. A driver 914 is $15k. The 951, 944 S2, 968, and 928 are $15k and up. Even the 996, which I used to routinely see (and buy) for under $20k, is at least a $20k car. As for everything else, they just go up from there. Sure there are occasionally exceptions and bargains out there, but overall it's hard to get any decent quality Porsche for under $10k, and when you start thinking about spending $10k for a 944 or 924S and comparing it to what $10k will buy in a contemporary sports car, that's pretty insane. Really the only decent value for the money is a 986 or 996, which for the money still offer decent performance. But the rest are just crazy.

Personally I find myself looking more and more at Japanese cars from the 1980s and 1990s, which offer a lot of fun and character at a very reasonable price. Maybe I'm just cheap, but I find this hobby to be far less fun when the cars start selling for "real" money.

[Jim Richards]

All cars, not just Porsches, that I find interesting have skyrocketed in price.

[javadog]

You got the right idea. There aren't a lot of great cars out there but there are few that were interesting. I remember buying a Nissan Maxima SE in 1985 when they came out. It wasn't a BMW, but it was a pretty fun car. Oddly enough, having grown up in Asia in the late 60s and early 70s, I have a soft spot for some of the more exotic cars that Japan put out in those days. Even relatively plain stuff like a Toyota Crown... We had a British Rover sedan when we lived in Singapore, I'd like to revisit that again.

I would like an old 1970s Toyota pick up, with four-wheel-drive. Plain white, no frills.

[fanaudical]

Everything seems to be getting expensive for "hobby" use, whether it be cars, parts, guns, boats, bicycles, camping gear, food, etc...

[Chocaholic]

Originally Posted by fanaudical

Everything seems to be getting expensive for "hobby" use, whether it be cars, parts, guns, boats, bicycles, camping gear, food, etc...

This^^^. We're moving back to our lake house in the spring. Sold our boats when we moved away and just started shopping for a one-boat-for-it-all solution. A reasonably powered (150hp+) tritoon starts at $50k. And used aren't much less. Wish I'd never sold what I had.

My boys and I enjoy shooting. Keeping the three of us in ammo is like a modest mortgage payment.

[Halm]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

All cars, not just Porsches, that I find interesting have skyrocketed in price.

What Jim said.

[wildthing]

Demand is high because more people have more money... And supply is not increasing.

Sad to say, either during the next recession or when these people die off is when prices will go down.

[Walter_Middie]

I enjoy shopping Craigslist for cars. It's not that I really need any more, I just like looking.

Matt, I do the same thing. At work I was looking at Craigslist during lunch, and someone asked if I was buying another car. I was surprised at the question, but realized that it must look strange to those that don't understand. I'm just trying to stay current with trends and looking at what projects others have.

Demand is high because more people have more money... And supply is not increasing.

To me, the problem is that there are just more people. There are more people everywhere I go - like camping, and hiking, and boating......there are just too many people competing for limited resources. I'm afraid it is not going to get better unless I move to a less populated area when I retire - but that's not necessarily what I want to do.

[KNS]

I remember many years ago seeing nice driver quality Alfa Romeo GTVs for under $10K, I car I've always lusted after. Not anymore.

I think it was Pete Stout who said in one of his editorials, when the price of the cars go up the fun goes away. I completely agree.

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

In a bit of information that will surprise absolutely nobody, I enjoy shopping Craigslist for cars. It's not that I really need any more, I just like looking. But it struck me yesterday when shopping used Porsches, there really aren't any affordable choices anymore in a P-car. A minty 924S or 944 is a $10k car. A decent 986 is a $10k car. A driver 914 is $15k. The 951, 944 S2, 968, and 928 are $15k and up. Even the 996, which I used to routinely see (and buy) for under $20k, is at least a $20k car. As for everything else, they just go up from there. Sure there are occasionally exceptions and bargains out there, but overall it's hard to get any decent quality Porsche for under $10k, and when you start thinking about spending $10k for a 944 or 924S and comparing it to what $10k will buy in a contemporary sports car, that's pretty insane. Really the only decent value for the money is a 986 or 996, which for the money still offer decent performance. But the rest are just crazy.
.

Originally Posted by Walter_Middie

Matt, I do the same thing. At work I was looking at Craigslist during lunch, and someone asked if I was buying another car. I was surprised at the question, but realized that it must look strange to those that don't understand. I'm just trying to stay current with trends and looking at what projects others have.

.

I do the exact same thing.. Always 'looking' and keeping up with the market, but while I do see some 928s and 944s, etc, for over $10K, thats a rarity. There seem to be a few owners who have pipe dreams about what their car is worth and seem to be trying to drive up the prices on their own!! There are countless 928s, 944s, 951s, etc in the $2-6K range in the local CL. And weirdly enough, 928s used to somewhat hard to find, but as of today, there literally 5-6 current ones listed.

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by wildthing

Demand is high because more people have more money... And supply is not increasing.

Sad to say, either during the next recession or when these people die off is when prices will go down.

And that 'non-existent' inflation. Don't forget that.

[greglepore]

I'm a bit distressed by the increase in Porsche prices, but some of it is dreamers, silliness and cars that have been "fixed" (ie good 944's 68's and 28's). Plenty of junk still cheap but none of it's aircooled.

There are still some automotive bargains out there-big BMW's, mid 90's Benz's etc. Same reason that some waterpump Porsche's are cheap, people are unreasonably afraid of the upkeep.

What depresses me is what's happened to the M car market, always wanted another, but now that folks have discovered that good E28's are actually rare, and M E39's aren't the disaster waiting to happen that normal E39's can be, the prices are becoming unaffordable. Oh well, guess another isn't in the cards.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

I do the exact same thing.. Always 'looking' and keeping up with the market, but while I do see some 928s and 944s, etc, for over $10K, thats a rarity. There seem to be a few owners who have pipe dreams about what their car is worth and seem to be trying to drive up the prices on their own!! There are countless 928s, 944s, 951s, etc in the $2-6K range in the local CL. And weirdly enough, 928s used to somewhat hard to find, but as of today, there literally 5-6 current ones listed.

We have slightly different standards of nice then, because I looked at Atlanta Craigslist for the fun of it. There's a decent (but not great) 1985 944 at $8k, a decent 928S at $9k, and 914 with rust that needs paint for $8k. There is a clean 924S for $6k and a 928 S4 5-speed that needs paint for $14k that would be worthy of a look. After that it goes downhill in a hurry, though there are some decent Boxsters that are affordable.

For those who say there isn't anything fun, interesting, and cheap, take a look at the Japanese sports cars. Prelude, CRX, 200SX, 240SX, RX7 (through FC), MR2, Celica, Supra, 300ZX, Sentra SE-R, 323 GTX, 3000GT, Galant VR4, Eclipse, Miata, and probably some others that I am forgetting to list. Lots of cool old stuff for not much money.

[Tervuren]

The ratio of dollars to 996's has changed drastically over the last few years. Its just the massive money printing we did catching up.

Income and costs rising.

Personally, I browse for Jaguar's on craiglist. You might want to try that instead of Porsche. You can get a nice 4.2L V8 Jaguar for under $10K if you look.

[speeder]

For me it's not the prices so much as time. Time is a much more limited thing than $$, people can earn/save/borrow/steal for anything they want bad enough, including cars. I just don't have the interest to waste much time on a car "hobby" which is just a life-sucking thing.

I speak from massive experience. Maybe if you're young and live out in the country and really need something to fill up some years and months, that is the opposite of my situation these days.

[rfuerst911sc]

The best bang for the buck right now in the Porsche world in my opinion is the Boxster and Cayenne . I'm sure the prices on those will start to climb as people wise up on the affordability . I'm actually thinking about picking up a pepper wagon before prices start climbing .
In the Japanese car market there is no way a Miata can be beat , they are cheap , reliable , no end to aftermarket support and there are millions to choose from . A small block Miata basically is a modern day Shelby Cobra at econo box pricing .

[KNS]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

The ratio of dollars to 996's has changed drastically over the last few years. Its just the massive money printing we did catching up.

Income and costs rising.

Personally, I browse for Jaguar's on craiglist. You might want to try that instead of Porsche. You can get a nice 4.2L V8 Jaguar for under $10K if you look.

Aren't they all automatics, though?

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by speeder

For me it's not the prices so much as time.

Agree.

We have experienced spikes in desirable, emerging desirable cars and their prices over and over. My Father lamented selling many, many cars, some worth significant scooters. The run up is always the same; different brands, much the same underlying causal factors.

I bought a 1974 911S in 2004 for $800.00. Body was in great shape, interior fine, engine had an oil leak and the previous owner had parked the car for over ten years.

That is how I found Pelican. I was going to do the work myself as I had on previous cars. Then time became an issue. It has remained so. I stopped working on cars and paid others to help.

I sold the 911S for $1500 in 2005. I had kids, a farm and a demanding job. I still do.

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by speeder

For me it's not the prices so much as time. Time is a much more limited thing than $$, people can earn/save/borrow/steal for anything they want bad enough, including cars. I just don't have the interest to waste much time on a car "hobby" which is just a life-sucking thing.

I speak from massive experience. Maybe if you're young and live out in the country and really need something to fill up some years and months, that is the opposite of my situation these days.

Eggsakly!

T > $$^4. Even more so as that Ultimate Death Thread grows.

[ckelly78z]

I find that I have the money to buy a cheap project car, but don't seem to have the money to fix it up properly, so why start something I can't finish.

The other problem is that both my wife, and I seem to be working far more hours than 40 a week here lately, and aren't getting any younger, (52)or healthier.