Any porch railing advice?

[scottmandue]

Our porch is second story and a good +/- 20 feet in the air so we need something sturdy.

Right now it is 2" painted steel tubing with 4"X4" feet held down with four lag bolts into the deck about every five feet which fulfills the sturdy requirement.

Problem is we live one block form the ocean and almost every night dew collects on the railing then puddles at the feet so the feet rust out and need to be replaced every 5-10 years. The deck has some kind of textured spray on sealer that has to be chiseled to get to the lag bolts, then we have a welder come in and install new feet, then have to have the feet resealed to the deck.

Trying to think of some way to keep the feet from rusting out.

TIA

[1990C4S]

I made a railing from aluminum, painted it with Benjamin Moore primer and then top coated it. It lasted a very long time.

Or powder coat...

[Noah930]

Whatever you do, don't forget to post the appropriate Proposition 65 warning labels.

[wilnj]

Not sure what your budget is. These are gorgeous but pricey and you’d have to figure out the attachment.

https://vivarailings.com/

My guess is the coating on the deck is fiberglass to waterproof the underside.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Baz]

Need pics, please......

[Evans, Marv]

If it were me, I might consider something like lightly sanding the base(s) up to where they stop rusting, coat it with something like POR-15, and spray a coat of good paint over that. I'm assuming your lag bolts are stainless, galvanized, or something similar.

[look 171]

There's no amount of POR 15 or any coating is going to beat mother nature.

Redesign may help, Scott. How about raising the connection point with a 1" block to keep water off the bolts and base flange. seal that with the coating. Next time it rust out, all you have to do is just weld in a new piece without having to chisel out the coating and resealing.

[Gogar]

It's not "Porch", it's "Porsche."

Jeezus.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by Baz

Need pics, please......

This.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by gogar

it's not "porch", it's "porsche."

jeezus.

[john70t]

Handles like it's on rails.

(I second the powder coating. And believe lag screws into wood are less safe than stainless through bolts with washers both sides, but I'm a somewhat connector freak after too many wobbly railings and seeing mass catastrophes such as dance hall floors collapsing at parties and loaded porches tearing off.)

[Baz]

FWIW, I'm in the process right now of building a new hand rail for my front stairwell out of PVC pipe on SS brackets that will be tap conned into my block wall.

So far it looks like the PVC pipe will be 1 1/4" sch 40.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Right now it is 2" painted steel tubing with 4"X4" feet held down with four lag bolts into the deck about every five feet which fulfills the sturdy requirement.............The deck has some kind of textured spray on sealer that has to be chiseled to get to the lag bolts.......

I don't understand what the substructure of your porch/deck is, is it wood or concrete?

Right now as it reads you have a flat concrete surface with anti-slip coating, on top of which is floated a wood deck. The vertical parts are 2" square post with 4"x4" base plates that are NOT lag bolted but anchor bolted (set in epoxy grout?) into the concrete.

Typically the anchor bolts swell from rust (concrete is porous) and need to be replaced, if severe enough the entire slab gets replaced. However there are good structural patching compounds by Thoroseal and others that might be appropriate.

In "Freeze/Thaw" areas like where I live the concrete gives out from cracks, and the steels rusts. In your area it sounds like the salt in the air is attacking mostly the exposed steel.

Changing materials to stainless steel or possibly aluminum will help, however you might NOT know the true condition of your connectors until the area is removed and cleaned up. Inspect these areas very carefully, they are like your engine mounts, and you may need new mounts.

Photos required, as the above is all guess work and conjecture at this point.

EDIT:

Expansion bolts (called wedge anchors in diagram) set in epoxy grout and caulk/sealed are common, you better go with stainless if replacing.

Below is a similar condition to what I've imagined, your description is lacking - sorry.

https://www.hooverfence.com/bufftech-oxford-railing-post-support-kit-concrete


Like I said, concrete is porous, there might be a water-resistant membrane under the concrete slab if an occupiable living space is below. You don't want to damage that, or will have to repair. What do you estimate the depth of the slab is?

One option is to go around the corrupted anchor bolts by just cutting them off flush and going with larger base plates and new holes, however those old bolts can be like a cancer - and cancer is best removed.

All this focus on anchor bolts is because if the base of the steel posts is as bad as what you say, and such a persistent problem, then I would look further down the path for more problems below it. Stuff you just cannot see right now.

[Zeke]

Likely the deck waterproofing is a urethane product. And more likely is that the balcony structure is framed with wood joists. Probably stucco on the bottom side for fire code. So Scott's situation is repeated all over SoCal and most everywhere else with our milder climate.

Attaching a base plate with lags is a poor ratio of hold down power to resisting lateral force but every 5 feet makes it work, barely in my mind. There is no simple solution for this but since stainless steel can be welded to mild steel, I'd at least go that route with SS lags. I'd also remove the old base plates and reseal the decking BEFORE the new plates assuming the welder can avoid over heating the metal while welding. He should weld on a riser and a sleeve so that the in situ welding is 6" or more from the deck. When inserting the lags, fill the top of the hole with high grade silicone based sealant and then coat the tops of the lags.

No matter what, moisture gets between any waterproofing where it meets metal. And the way it is now, you can't see the deterioration until it is pretty bad. My way keeps the metal exposed and minimizes the seam of waterproofing to metal.

Jeff's idea about blocks to raise the bases above the deck surface just enough to avoid and standing water at the bases is another step that would improve this design. Put them in and run the waterproofing patches over the tops. Bevel the sides so the WP doesn't have to accommodate a 90º angle surrounding the base.

Even better would be to move the posts to the front of the deck and attach to the fascia, but that might not fly with the HOA.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Likely the deck waterproofing is a urethane product. And more likely is that the balcony structure is framed with wood joists. Probably stucco on the bottom side for fire code. So Scott's situation is repeated all over SoCal and most everywhere else with our milder climate.

I agree if this is standard wood frame construction, and agree with stainless steel hardware suggestion.

I've repaired a few decks and porches with my friend that's a builder. First thing we do is replace all the lags with through-bolts. It's just amazing how this fixes so many other problems.

I used lags to hold up the eye-hook on my heavy punching bag, even those came out and had to be replaced with through bolts.

I use lags for very few things these days, would not even consider it in an earthquake zone, but that's just me and my preferences.

You have to follow code, there is no guarantee what was built is to code just that it wasn't caught and corrected.

[John Rogers]

What do the rules of the city/county/state say about railings where you live? Sometimes there are rules as to how far apart the vertical posts can be or how high the top rail can be, ETC, ETC. I would check that before you decide to do anything and also check if an inspection has to be done since the deck is way above "grade".

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Likely the deck waterproofing is a urethane product. And more likely is that the balcony structure is framed with wood joists. Probably stucco on the bottom side for fire code. So Scott's situation is repeated all over SoCal and most everywhere else with our milder climate.

Zeke nailed it (pardon the pun) I will get some pictures to post when I get home after work.

Thanks for all the repies!

[scottmandue]

A picture of the catio I built and the associated railing:

As I said I will get some close up shots of the footings when I get home to post.

[scottmandue]

Snapped a few pics on my way off to work:







I should add that this is an old neighborhood with no HOA BUT it is a beach community with a few hyper vigilante watchdog types so I would like to keep the repair low profile.

[scottmandue]

Shameless bump for the weekend (Lilly peeking around the corner):