Patio Paving Stone Questions

[hcoles]

Hello Again Pelicans,

I'm planning a redo of my backyard. SHMBO is not going for dirt any longer.

The overall plan is a combination of PVC deck and pavers. Some dirt will remain for planting trees along the fence line.

I'm looking for comments/suggestions/recommendations on the following:

- paver type (I assume there are some general types, permeable or not, thicknesses/etc.)

- paver surface preparation ( e.g. compacted soil, sub-base, sand) I've seen some recommendations to use concrete as part of the base.

I need to check with my city to see what's up with a maximum covering of my lot and if I need to use permeable pavers.

So far I've received a rough quote in the range of $20-$25/sq. ft. The area to be covered by pavers is about 450-500 sq. ft.

Thanks in advance for the usual good advice.

[stealthn]

Go with stamped concrete instead to save yourself the upkeep

[billybek]

I am a big fan of pavers.
Proper base prep and only some very easy minor repairs in 18 years at my house in an area that experiences freeze thaw conditions.
Re-usable.
Sell them if you change your mind, re configure if you want something different.
Base prep and a good plan is key.

[Noah930]

Are you going to go with a contractor who does it all for you? Or are you looking just for the labor to make it all happen?

We renovated our backyard a few months ago. The few contractors/handymen we talked to all seemed to want to do pavers. Personally, while the look is nice and clean, it's something I most definitely did not want for my own backyard. (Why do all these guys want to sell us on pavers?)

So I took measurements and did sketches on graph paper, and figured out how much material we needed. We took out an existing (but tired) lawn, and replaced it mainly with decomposed granite (DG), a flagstone patio, and with some remaining soil (covered with Mexican pebbles/rock) for ground-level planters. We had an idea of what we wanted, so we just needed someone to do the heavy lifting. We used a neighbor's recommended contractor. Fortunately, we don't have freeze-thaw here in the flatlands of California, so surface prep is simpler (you don't need 4-6" of gravel and sand base, for example). I went to a few building supply yards and figured out which one was the cheapest; prices vary widely for materials, I found. And between the gravel yard and Home Depot, I think we were able to get all material we needed. Bought them myself and had the materials delivered, and paid for the contractor/labor separately.

[hcoles]

At this point I'm looking for a contractor to do the whole job.
My back will not survive much of this sort of work.
I live in an area with very high labor and profit rates.
All of the contractors that do a good or better job are busy.
E.g. I just got a composite shingle roof for $25k that is 30 squares.

[JavaBrewer]

Your quote is very high IMO. Did it come from a large installer like Systems Paving? Go to a paver supply yard and ask them for installer recommendations.

I too am a big fan of pavers. We have used them in our last 3 homes for driveway, patio, and walkways. We last used Angelus Antique Cobble (standard paver). There are other manufacturers out there, high end tumbled options ($$$), etc... As Billy said they are infinitely versatile and durable. Concrete cannot be altered after install, cracks, and if you go with stamped has to be routinely maintained.

Install is a compacted base, sand, then pavers, edge restraint (typically pavers set in concrete), joint sand, and vibrating plate. Not an DIY task for larger projects - all the materials are heavy.

[KFC911]

I've done pavers (parents' house) and a flagstone patio...used crushed granite as a base. It's hard damn work...but I'm a cheap bastid and don't mind hard work...actually enjoyed it. I have "retired" from that stuff now

[Don Ro]

$25 x 500 sq ft = $12,500. Yikes. Well, you're in Saratoga...maybe that's why.

[jgreen]

Please, don't do PVC deck.....just google pvc deck issues and complaints. Anything goes bad, you can't refinish only replace. Also, don't use hidden fasteners with pvc or any composite, very few will adequately control thermal expansion and contraction.

[mgatepi]

I installed PVC decking around my pool, looks great. Used the hidden fasteners and we have had no problems. Our issue is it gets HOT!! When you are barefooted and step on the decking it hurts!!!

Enjoy!
mg

[hcoles]

good point jgreen. It seems there are all sorts of problems with the "pvc" decking.
On a blog I was reading about DecKorators brand of decking that is supposed to be superior in that the common issues are addressed.

[Bill Douglas]

I'm a big fan of flagstone pavers. Easy to do yourself. And when it rains there is no run off as it drains between. Gives a nice natural look.

[porsche tech]

We needed a new driveway and I started looking at various options. I saw a lot of concrete driveways that looked pretty new that already had cracks. This was going to be expensive either way we did it so we opted for pavers. We have LOTS of trees and quite often they buckle driveways, walkways, cart paths, etc. So with the pavers (that were a little more than concrete) if there is tree root damage, they just pull up the pavers in the area of the damage, fix the roots and put the pavers back down. We had this done back in 2012 and still love it. Really makes for curb appeal. We later had both our rear decks replaced with paver patios. Also concrete low spots retain water but with pavers it goes right through.

[cabmandone]

I'm with StealtN, look into stained stamped concrete. I'm going to be removing an old paver patio I installed and go the stamped concrete route.
As for what base etc. depends on how solid the soil is. Here we have clay so I over dug by about 4 inches, went with compacted 4/11 limestone then compacted fines then a setting layer of sand that I could place the paver in and tamp into place. Pouring concrete definitely keeps things from moving but at that point you might as well go with stamped concrete and call it a day.

[LWJ]

My buddy teaches concrete work at the local trade school. He convinced me to do the pavers over concrete due to cracking. They look good. Minimal effort annually. I do have small ants making nests in the sand / base gravel.

I did it myself. WOW. Hardest job ever.

Summary. I am ambivalent on pavers. Certainly not in love with them.

End note: we have stamped, dyed concrete at a family farm. It looks great. No cracks yet 15 years into it.

[sammyg2]

My backyard had pavers when I bought the house but apparently the base was not done right and we had problems. Uneven surfaces, poor drainage, weeds, etc.

I had them ripped out and replaced with stamped concrete when we put in the pool about 10 years ago, would do it again in a heartbeat.

[hcoles]

Regarding the deck material.

It sounds like fully capped composite decking addresses most of the issues reported. The issue I see as most common is that the surface gets very hot in the sun. Some brands are likely to be better than others - more investigation needed.

The other alternative is IPE which is a hardwood. I didn't uncover many negatives. Some negatives mentioned are: special cutting tools needed, staining every two years if you don't want the color to fade and very little color selection (usually is a dark brown color).

[hcoles]

ptech, I like the look of the gray driveway.