Need home (structure) advice. Is this going to fall apart?
 

SO and I are looking to purchase a house. House was built in 2013 and from outward appearances all seemed well before putting down earnest money. Home inspector found that the exterior brick below the window was loose and the cracks/gaps had formed.

I am not an engineer, but I probably slept with his girlfriend during school. ;)

I understand that this could be a settling issue, but want to know the PPOT brain trust thoughts. David(125) want to take a spin up to the Woodlands and check it out? We have until Wednesday of next week to either terminate the contract or proceed with the sale.

Without further ado.... picture time.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538701599.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538701636.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538701694.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538701786.JPG

for reference it is the double window above the garage. Cracks on the corner are on the right side of the window and so is the gap.

I think that would have me continuing my search. Proximity to the neighboring homes would do the same.

Thanks guys. And Mark we have a structural engineer coming out in the next day or two to looks things over. The structure is still under warranty from the buolder but I'd rather not deal with that.

And I wish I could have ten acres, a small landing strip, and a pond but that isn't happening.

Builder 10 yr Warranty will not cover that.**

They likely laid the brick on a wood ledge, or didn't bolt(support) angle iron under the window properly. Also no weep holes above flashing (likely water stains in garage ceiling)

From the sloppy, washed joints under the window, looks like they tried repointing the brick already. To fix it right, that roof is coming off, needs to be flashed properly, brick removed, flashed, and replaced from ledge to bottom of window.

** most warranty books would have builder repair by caulking cracks/repointing brick with gaps larger than 1/4".

Looked it up in our book:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538703669.jpg

Holy crap. You just nailed it dad911. There are in fact water stains directly below in the garage. I meant to take a picture today but didn't. I thought they seemed out of place.

I honestly can't tell much from the pictures. Guessing here, but is picture #2 from above the garage? Should it be rotated 90 degrees CW to represent the orientation? If so, then yes, that's serious stuff. Not a foundation problem, but the framing around the garage door is sagging.

I am distracted by the chick in white pants and black pumps.

Does she know Labor Day has passed?

Judging by the two different colors of mortar, it's been a problem and has already been corrected once before. Seeing as how the house is only 5 years old, it won't be long before that entire facade will need to come down, structural modifications made and then redone. Imagine what else is going to present itself in the next 10-15-20 years. I'd terminate the contract and keep looking.

35 ys in business. 2nd generation builder, father was 3rd generation mason. ;)

There should also be weep holes where the brick meets the foundation.

If not, run away.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_KpXOgJaNUg...ep+holes01.JPG

roof should be flashed like this to prevent leaks:

https://i.stack.imgur.com/pLer1.png


@ Jim - I had to look three times, must be slipping..... ;)

Structurally it may be fine but unless the seller is willing to pay or discount the price to cover a proper repair I would say screw it. Once the bricks are pulled away you may find additional repair so some contingency will need to be built into the discounted price.

If that area needs repair so will the other brick area over time. I assume it is just the front walls. Anything can be fixed but how much are the sellers going to Discount and is it worth your risk?

To answer your topic question: yes it will eventually fall apart.

Dad911 nailed it. Not enough support for the brick.

We used to bolt lintels to the house for the brick to sit on, but stopped that 20 years ago. Now it goes up in a straight line.

I think the triangle shaped brick at the bottom is strange. Something weird about it.

Weep holes with a dam/flashing needed above the windows too.

It’s not covered by a 10 year structural warranty either. It’s a veneer.

It's a TX house.

The brick is "siding", decorative, not structural.

It's window dressing.

Will it get worse, probably.

But it's cosmetic and easily remedied.

We had a similar situation with our new build two years in.

Entire wall above the the double garage and a portion under the single feel in.

Took one day to fix and 8 years later I'd all but forgotten about it till this post.

Tell seller to fix it.

They can put money in escrow to cover cost so you can still close.

Basically, if they don't address / take care of, the money in escrow is there to cover the cost.

BTDT.

That, my friends, is damn funny.

Who knew PPOT would be full of builders and fashionista's?

Don, we had already picked out where the 300 bottle wine fridge would go. Or the spare bedroom for you to come and enjoy Houston's finest.

Wine fridge? Spare room? I'll bring my trowel, who's got a ladder?

Yep...me too. Can it be fixed....of cour$e, but I'd not be willing to do that unless this particular house is really special or a screamin' deal too good to pass on....and I'd still likely pass.

The brick is a facade, so not structural. The issue I have is the brick being loose is water entry and mold. That window also does not look properly installed.

Who is the builder?

I think Tom is a first time buyer? What might be trivial for some of us (not for me), is probably not the way to go for a novice.....with a life :). Unless this board guides his way....seriously!

https://www.mihomes.com/new-homes/texas/greater-houston/houston

One thing to consider is that builders generally do not provide adequate foundations, or any serious engineering into their design, so I would always be wary of houses that are perched on sloping lots and also any house on soil that has a high clay content, particularly in a climate like Texas, or you have hot dry summers.

Even though the brick on that house is a veneer, if it been built properly you would never see a problem like that. My house was built 45 years ago and doesn't have a single crack anywhere in the brick façade.

We all agree that it was not built properly. Unless they are seeing cracking elsewhere, I doubt the problem is a foundation. I expect it is simply poor construction. And with the water entry, mold is assured. With our humidity, mold is always present. but with water entry, it will be all over that internal area.

There have to be other houses around without the issue in Wolf-Boy's (Wolf-Man now?) price range.

Hey Tom, we need to get out for an Astros game! SmileWavy

It's a decorative course of brick that runs the length across the garage roof and continues around the house. Look at the other picture.

Here you go. All brick imprints are supposed to face inwards so they cannot be seen. This was a poor job. And the installation of the windows was poor as well.

RUN, don't walk, from this house. Mold mold mold mold mold


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538745096.jpg

Give me a call, if you still have my cell phone. I could take a run out and look at it.

I agree. I wasn't mentioning the foundation as a cause for this damage but simply adding to the things he needs to look for. I wouldn't look at ANY house built on a slope, or on clay soils.

In addition to your mold fears, I'll add that water intrusion will also destroy the integrity of any wood structure if enough time elapses. Cracks of that size can allow significant water entry.

Run, Forrest, run...

Agree with others:
- Brick appears inadequately supported, and/or wood beam and/or foundation has settled. Look for cracks/bowing/sloping on the slab in the garage.
- There will be water intrusion. But the level of damage is TBD and that would be my bigger concern -- is there structural rot in the wall/window/roof/ceiling?

Brick cracks are actually pretty easy to repair (assuming you've got adequate support below). Water damage is cancer.

If you (or the seller) decides to fix it and you need a "brick guy," PM me as I can make a recommendation of one I used -- I've successfully had worse brick cracks repaired and it looks good and has held up great many years later. But I already owned the problem -- if the house you're looking at isn't otherwise special (or deeply discounted), I'd keep looking for one that's better built/maintained.

Run, don't walk, away from this one!

I'm a structural engineer (but I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night) and investigated 1000s of these type problems over the years. It appears, the wall with the window is set back further than the front garage wall, right? So there has to be some sort of beam just above the garage ceiling and directly below that wall that span across the garage. It will not be visible without cutting the drywall garage ceiling. That beam is the likely problem - it is probably a double LVL or maybe a glulam. If it is only a double or triple 2x12 it is surely undersized and improperly nailed and is a sign of poor quality construction that may also be present in other hidden areas of the home. If the beam is OK, then it's the lintel directly supporting the brick like previously mentioned.

These LVL beams (and even steel) are often improperly sized by the guy at the lumberyard counter from a spec book, and not understanding that there is a significant amount of deflection (sag) allowed when the beam is used for a floor or roof (which is what the standard charts are for). Obviously, brick cannot flex and a much stiffer beam is required. Hopefully, your engineer brings a drywall saw, or at least , a borescope and drill to see what's above the garage ceiling. This is not a foundation problem. Nothing is going to collapse. It's sort of a nuisance type failure but will be a constant leakage source.

As an architect, I am in agreement with the group here. While this issue may be fixable from an aesthetic standpoint, given what appears to be open joints, there is the potential for mold in the wall. Not with standing that the brick is just a decorative element, given the sloppiness of the brick install it is likely there are holes in the underlying water proof membrane that would allow moisture in the wall. The only way to determine that is to pull the finish from the inside, remove the insulation and look at the sheathing.

If there are other houses in the area that are better built, then go there. These problems are solvable, you just need to go into understand the full extent of what repairs might be and requesting reasonable accommodation to determine if a problem exists. If you pull the drywall interior finish, say a 2 foot square and find no mold, the only harm is a patch and some paint.

Sort of like the PPI on my clone. Inspector thought there was damage to second gear synchros, so we negotiated pulling the motor and trans. He paid for that, and if there was no damage, then that was the only concession he made.

but the nice flat areas FLOOD there

I DO NOT LIKE STICK BUILT HOUSES [siding] :rolleyes:
esp in hurricane strike areas
after ANDREW came thru a fair number of upper stick build walls blew off
allowing the homes to be destroyed or severely damaged
does that house have upper siding like the one on each side do
as winds are more powerful higher up

our fake brick houses are over a CBS walls here
and the brick is attached to the wall not a free spaced single layer

there is NOTHING behind a single layer of brick ?
no tie to the stick built wall at all ?
so in 100 mph + winds the wall/facing will shake and break
my 40's built CBS OLD HOUSE SHOOK AT 100MPH BUT DID NOT BREAK
it was a small house but built with 4x8 roof beams [that were a full 4'' by 8'' old style]
and roof was t&g planks not ply
my current house in the ANDREW eyewall area cracked a few CBS joints but held
likely from impacts of flying stuff it was built in 1955
very few stick build homes survived in the eyewall esp the siding on second floors

I would look for older homes built of CBS by union labor in the 50/60's
too many short cuts on new homes today

I really do NOT modern building standards and cheap unskilled labor used today

Just what I was going to write. Most likely undersized beam above the garage door.

Send me a text and let me know where, I'll come look with you if I can. Although this may be a house to pass on.

When they built our house with a brick veneer, they used sheet metal anchors. Not sure how strong they really are though.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538767845.jpg

how many anchors are used by code ?

If they used dimensional lumber to make their own support for that wall, something I see all the time (especially in headers) that will have shrunk since the house was built and their 2x12s might only be 11 inches wide now, as opposed to the 11.5 inches they likely were when installed. That's enough shrinkage to cause that problem.

I'd find another house, that one will have more problems than just the one you see now.

So, who is wearing the white pants.

Your answer will guide my follow up post.

*edit*

Heck with it.

If she is your SO, nice job.

If she is the realtor, nice job.


https://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images...0/154/820.jpeg

minimum 2' on center both ways