Chefs: How about a KITCHEN APPLIANCES thread?

[Gogar]

Ok, so here's one for fun.



I'm ripping up the kitchen in Casa Gogar for a while here, removing a wall and making a few decisions.

This is a SMALL kitchen (about 150 Square Feet) even after I remove the wall.

My focus for appliances will be a SMALL amount of (relatively) high quality stuff. I do enjoy cooking and am ok at it, and I'm also a gearhead in general. (I'm here, right?)

I want a gas dual-fuel range or a cooktop/wall oven. Probably a range. Easier, cheaper.

I want a REAL hood. Not some useless thing that looks cool.

Counter-depth refrigerator. I'm not Jewish, and I like ice.

Looking at:

Wolf/SubZero (At the very top of my $$$ comfort level)

Viking (In my reach, just barely)

Thermador (In reach, just barely)

Dacor (Gosh, A lot more comfortable idea $$$-wise)




What I've noticed:

People seem to like Wolf ranges but none of the other stuff, including Sub-Zero.

Dacor ranges have great features (including an 18,000 BTU burner) and get pretty good reviews.

Viking consistently gets TERRIBLE reviews, all the time. And it's still super expensive.

Many Viking products are just rebadged stuff. For Example, the $3500 Viking entry-level fridge is a rebadged Electrolux. Yes, I understand this happens a lot, not just with appliances.

Related - Dacor Was bought by Samsung in 2016. Will that make it better? Or worse?

Thermador . . . I haven't looked a whole lot but seems cool.






What say you, oh sage pelican geniuses?

What else should I look at? I wanna feel like a cool guy, and have a small amount of nice, well-thought out stuff in my teeny tiny kitchen.

When I'm done I hope for my kitchen to be almost as good as a well-set up 944.


thank you!

[rusnak]

Maybe look at food trailer setups. Seriously, some of those things have impressive kitchens that you could cook all day in.

[rusnak]

Or for something different, check out SMEG appliances.

Gas Cooktops - Smeg | Smeg US

[Jandrews]

Hey J,

We have Sub-Zero fridge and Wolf gas cooktop and microwave. All are about 9 years old. I would say they have been good, not necessarily great. Not sure they are worth the premium, especially the fridge, although not sure anything else is all that great either. They look nice, do function, and probably help to preserve some value in the kitchen in the event of resale. Overall, I am glad we got them, but I do think they are over-priced for what you get (other than brand prestige - which frankly is not really important in the scheme of things).

Let me know if you want pics. Hope all is well.

JA

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Or for something different, check out SMEG appliances.

Gas Cooktops - Smeg | Smeg US

I know! I had never seen anything but a SMEG fridge, and I looked at it for a bit. This photo sums up the general internet consensus:

[pvlmal]

I would look at Miele_ I sell both Wolf/Sub Zero and Miele and Miele has some very cool features and built to last a long time- also have 10% off on a "package" thru March 31, 2017.
they have never discounted before- don't need to accept delivery till end of November to still get the 10%- which they mail direct $ to you, the dealer does not deal with it.

[john70t]

Many modern kitchens have dual/split zones for two people to work, or a cooking zone with a bar-spectator-sitting area.
Not mine.
I planned my small work space for one captain at the helm, one cook in the kitchen, the one with the cahones, that's me, get the heck out of my way, no passing, sit down and leave me alone while I make the food. Hey watchitt yous people I'm a working ov'er heahh!

There are repeat actions that can make a kitchen much more efficient:
1)- Remove food from fridge and set on counter, on or near prep counter.

2)- Remove food from storage pantry/s and set on counter, on or near prep counter.

3)- Prep counter needs nearby spices/knives/chopping board/blender/utensils/bowls to mix before stove.
-It also needs nearby trash. Either a drop-through hole or pull out with foot. Something easy to keep hands sanitary and cabinet knobs clean.
-It needs to be adequate sized for having many ingredients ready to cook at once.
-If there's enough room, there can be two prep counters. Such as an island w/sink. The work flowchart and access to same food/tools can get complicated when designing for two chefs.
-Everything near stove should ideally be within a direct step or two.

4)- Prep count needs to be located near the stove.
You don't want to carry drippy stuff across the room.

5)- Offload or cool down area after stuff comes out of oven/stove.
A clean empty space unaffected by prep.

Plan extra space around cabinet for refrigerators.
None of them are the same dimensions ten years from now when time to replace. Gaps can be covered with decorative molding or thin custom pull-out shelves.

I would get some big cardboard boxes and create your desired layout.
Then pretend to cook in it moving around fast like you would normally do.
Does the flow make sense?
Is everything available?
Is there enough versatile space to add more utensils/features later on?

[tabs]

Electric ovens temps are consistent.

[Don Ro]

Excellent info/advice. Thanks.



~~~~~~~~~~~

Originally Posted by john70t

Many modern kitchens have dual/split zones for two people to work, or a cooking zone with a bar-spectator-sitting area.
Not mine.
I planned my small work space for one captain at the helm, one cook in the kitchen, the one with the cahones, that's me, get the heck out of my way, no passing, sit down and leave me alone while I make the food. Hey watchitt yous people I'm a working ov'er heahh!

There are repeat actions that can make a kitchen much more efficient:
1)- Remove food from fridge and set on counter, on or near prep counter.

2)- Remove food from storage pantry/s and set on counter, on or near prep counter.

3)- Prep counter needs nearby spices/knives/chopping board/blender/utensils/bowls to mix before stove.
-It also needs nearby trash. Either a drop-through hole or pull out with foot. Something easy to keep hands sanitary and cabinet knobs clean.
-It needs to be adequate sized for having many ingredients ready to cook at once.
-If there's enough room, there can be two prep counters. Such as an island w/sink. The work flowchart and access to same food/tools can get complicated when designing for two chefs.
-Everything near stove should ideally be within a direct step or two.

4)- Prep count needs to be located near the stove.
You don't want to carry drippy stuff across the room.

5)- Offload or cool down area after stuff comes out of oven/stove.
A clean empty space unaffected by prep.

Plan extra space around cabinet for refrigerators.
None of them are the same dimensions ten years from now when time to replace. Gaps can be covered with decorative molding or thin custom pull-out shelves.

I would get some big cardboard boxes and create your desired layout.
Then pretend to cook in it moving around fast like you would normally do.
Does the flow make sense?
Is everything available?
Is there enough versatile space to add more utensils/features later on?

[Gogar]

Thank you John70t,

I did read some great articles about flow and I hope for it to be applicable. As you can see nothing in this kitchen is less than 5 feet from anything else.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by tabs

Electric ovens temps are consistent.

Yes that's why I like the dual-fuel idea.

[tabs]

Sink needs to be near stove and work area.

With the kitchen I have now, to get from the sink to the stove you have to walk around the island

That is a major design flaw..now if there was a sink in the island that would be a different story.

Also I have a cheap GE gas range top...not enugh BTU's in the stove and the range hood is next to useless.

It does have a double convection oven though.

Ohh well.

What youse is talkin bout is ERGONOMICS.

[Don Plumley]

We have a Wolf Range and a SubZero. The SZ fridge (new one) is outstanding, really like the LED lighting and PureAir technology. Plus it's great for counter depth. I just bought this SZ fridge, would do it again. I'd also buy Wolf if I had to replace mine.

The Wolf is a big six burner with Gas oven. As Tabs said, Electric is actually a much better choice for baking.

Go to a high end appliance store and get a sense of what you like/don't like. Pay attention to the recent acquisitions of (previously) high-end brands (e.g. Viking) that have leveraged the name to go downmarket. Even good old Fisher-Paykel has been acquired.

[tabs]

GD it the good ole Merican made brands just are not what they used to be...It is so sad...They have all been sold off and now the name recognition is being traded upon. I really do not want to get started on this economically or politically.

Maybe you should look at some used commercial equipment? Especially for the stove .Here you might get a good unit by a used to make good stuff mfg. Even if you had to recondition?

Also I would get a commercial grade Range hood. Something that will suck you up if you are not bolted to the floor. If you are WOK cooking that is something that is necessary. For WOK cooking you need about 22K Btu..

On the Refer I probably would stick with new.

Also I would not go with something with a lot of bells and whistles. Keep it simple as there is less to go wrong. Also how often do you use all the whistles?

[jyl]

Look at American Range. Mostly make commercial equipment. They have a residential line that is as close to commercial equipment as you can get and still be residential legal. Including no electronics, all old school and easily repaired.

[HardDrive]

This! We have a Miele oven, warming drawer and fridge. Love them. We having a Viking cooktop and a Wolfe hood. Satisfied with both.

It you have a pot over flow, the spark mechanism on the Viking can be a bit of a PIA to get clean, but we've never had to have it serviced.

Originally Posted by pvlmal

I would look at Miele_ I sell both Wolf/Sub Zero and Miele and Miele has some very cool features and built to last a long time- also have 10% off on a "package" thru March 31, 2017.
they have never discounted before- don't need to accept delivery till end of November to still get the 10%- which they mail direct $ to you, the dealer does not deal with it.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by john70t

Many modern kitchens have dual/split zones for two people to work, or a cooking zone with a bar-spectator-sitting area.
Not mine.
I planned my small work space for one captain at the helm, one cook in the kitchen, the one with the cahones, that's me, get the heck out of my way, no passing, sit down and leave me alone while I make the food. Hey watchitt yous people I'm a working ov'er heahh!

There are repeat actions that can make a kitchen much more efficient:
1)- Remove food from fridge and set on counter, on or near prep counter.

2)- Remove food from storage pantry/s and set on counter, on or near prep counter.

3)- Prep counter needs nearby spices/knives/chopping board/blender/utensils/bowls to mix before stove.
-It also needs nearby trash. Either a drop-through hole or pull out with foot. Something easy to keep hands sanitary and cabinet knobs clean.
-It needs to be adequate sized for having many ingredients ready to cook at once.
-If there's enough room, there can be two prep counters. Such as an island w/sink. The work flowchart and access to same food/tools can get complicated when designing for two chefs.
-Everything near stove should ideally be within a direct step or two.

4)- Prep count needs to be located near the stove.
You don't want to carry drippy stuff across the room.

5)- Offload or cool down area after stuff comes out of oven/stove.
A clean empty space unaffected by prep.

Plan extra space around cabinet for refrigerators.
None of them are the same dimensions ten years from now when time to replace. Gaps can be covered with decorative molding or thin custom pull-out shelves.

I would get some big cardboard boxes and create your desired layout.
Then pretend to cook in it moving around fast like you would normally do.
Does the flow make sense?
Is everything available?
Is there enough versatile space to add more utensils/features later on?

I'm building a franchise operation that shall go un named for now. The "kitchen" is basically a heat and serve setup. I did a time/motion study to show that their fridge/ prep/ oven setup needs to change. They refused, even though I am the franchisee and am paying the bill. Sooooo, I'm going to just get equipment on wheels and make longer cords. And a second range will be installed at the get-go.

[peppy]

I was impressed with the Capital Culinarian range and the vent-a-hood. If I ever get to redo our kitchen that's what I want.

[look 171]

I agree about the Miele. We are just about done with this and its an all Miele kitchen. Where to Buy Heavy Duty Free Floating Shelves?

Wolf and Sub-0 is what I would buy. Thermador would be my next choice. Band for the buck is American Range (cheaper but performance is just as good without the big bells and whistles). Dual fuel range is a must IMO. Only difference is the fit and finish on the upper end appliances. The polishing and shiny things are jsut so much prettier. Microwave, I stick to Sharp. Capital Range is great, but that's like buying a diesel truck instead of a high end sports sedan.

Show me a layout with dimension of your kitchen and I will see about helping you out. For years, I did nothing but design and built high end kitchens and baths.

Do not install real commercial ranges and ovens in your home. the get too hot and you may not have enough gas going to the appliance. Most of them require an air space of 6" or something to keep your house from going up in flames. You don;t need that and neither does your insurance company.

[Jim Bremner]

Originally Posted by john70t

Many modern kitchens have dual/split zones for two people to work, or a cooking zone with a bar-spectator-sitting area.
Not mine.
I planned my small work space for one captain at the helm, one cook in the kitchen, the one with the cahones, that's me, get the heck out of my way, no passing, sit down and leave me alone while I make the food. Hey watchitt yous people I'm a working ov'er heahh!

There are repeat actions that can make a kitchen much more efficient:
1)- Remove food from fridge and set on counter, on or near prep counter.

2)- Remove food from storage pantry/s and set on counter, on or near prep counter.

3)- Prep counter needs nearby spices/knives/chopping board/blender/utensils/bowls to mix before stove.
-It also needs nearby trash. Either a drop-through hole or pull out with foot. Something easy to keep hands sanitary and cabinet knobs clean.
-It needs to be adequate sized for having many ingredients ready to cook at once.
-If there's enough room, there can be two prep counters. Such as an island w/sink. The work flowchart and access to same food/tools can get complicated when designing for two chefs.
-Everything near stove should ideally be within a direct step or two.

4)- Prep count needs to be located near the stove.
You don't want to carry drippy stuff across the room.

5)- Offload or cool down area after stuff comes out of oven/stove.
A clean empty space unaffected by prep.

Plan extra space around cabinet for refrigerators.
None of them are the same dimensions ten years from now when time to replace. Gaps can be covered with decorative molding or thin custom pull-out shelves.

I would get some big cardboard boxes and create your desired layout.
Then pretend to cook in it moving around fast like you would normally do.
Does the flow make sense?
Is everything available?
Is there enough versatile space to add more utensils/features later on?

This is sound advice add in different levels of work space I have a Jenn-Air 48" pro and matching hood that I bought 1/2 off when a store was going out of biz. I also looked at Bertazzoni | To cook beautifully but my wife wouldn't let me get funky with the kitchen. The one thing that I like about the Bertazzoni is that it doesn't have a computer controlling it. I do fear the electronics going out in the Jenn-Air