Maintaining the modern car 10, 20 years from now.

[DWBOX2000]

I was just curious on people's thoughts about fixing the computer aided cars in the future. My car for example is a 2000 Boxster S. I know there is a box under the seat that is the brain of the car. Say 10 years from now, that box gets wet and expires, will there be people to fix it? When I had my 77 Carrera 3.0, I had problems with the Warm up regulator. Well I just pulled apart and bent some things, put back together and off I went. With this mysterious box, I can't just pull apart. I wouldn't have a clue. For someone planning on keeping a car with this situation, would it be wise to buy one of those boxes now used, have it programmed for the car and shelf it?

The CIS thing I kind of figured out, this newer stuff has me totally baffled. I'm a proactive guy so thought I would ask the question. Won't likely due anything now due to the cost but just for hypothetical sake.

In case you wonder, I've moved on from the 996 idea. With much thought, I'm quite content now building the Box into what I want. Down to seats and maybe a steering wheel. Done, drive and enjoy.

Thanks,
David

[Noah930]

Even my '87 930 with CIS has a mysterious black box under the driver's seat. When it became faulty, I found out it is out-of-stock. So my mechanic resoldered all the contacts inside of it, and it works again. Where there's a will, there's a way, I suppose.

The benefit of your Boxster, I would think, are the large numbers manufactured. At least you'll have donor cars to cannibalize if/when necessary.

[legion]

I think the disposable electronics in most modern cars have made the cars themselves disposable.

I imagine there will be a secondary market for some used electronics. Some particularly desirable cars will have aftermarket solutions (that may or may not work as well as the OEM equipment).

I read an article about a year ago that highlighted another issue. There is one mechanic in the U.S. that is certified to work on the McLaren F1. As the electronics are from the 90's and use a serial port, he has to keep a 90's 386 Compaq laptop running Windows 3.1 over DOS to be able to do diagnostics on the vehicles.

[speeder]

Who gives a schit? I'll be dead.

I'm a *live for today* kind of guy when it comes to technology. Toasters, cars, microwaves...never give them a second thought.

[GH85Carrera]

Most modern cars of today will never be repaired in 20 years. They will be worth so little, they will just go to the junk yard. Image trying to fix the controls of most cars of today they have a central computer controlling the AC, Stereo, and most of the functions of the car. No one will have replacements except maybe the high production number cars if those. Look at the BMW 7 series cars. Resale value from 6 figures that drops to nothing in under 10 years.

[Daves911L]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Most modern cars of today will never be repaired in 20 years. They will be worth so little, they will just go to the junk yard. Image trying to fix the controls of most cars of today they have a central computer controlling the AC, Stereo, and most of the functions of the car. No one will have replacements except maybe the high production number cars if those. Look at the BMW 7 series cars. Resale value from 6 figures that drops to nothing in under 10 years.

This is one of the factors driving our beloved and relatively simple little cars into the stratosphere, pricewise. They can be maintained/repaired almost indefinitely. Thus, they have an appeal that the modern throw away car does not. 356 stops on the side of the road, a guy with a screwdriver, piece of bailing wire, and half a brain stands a better than even chance of getting it going and making it home in time for dinner. Modern car stops on the road, you call a flatbed and wait. Eventually the mechanic hooks up his laptop and tells you what electronic component stopped working, and its never cheap.

[id10t]

Copyright law will be the killer (internationally) as well as US specific things like extra felony charges via the DMCA. But much like you can't get a key cut for $3 any more ($300 electrical bob that has $1 in parts wrapped in $3 of plastic instead) getting correct scan codes, replacement parts, the embedded OSes for maintenance, being able to authenticate/authorize a part to the controlling computer and its OS (the john deer issue), etc. will be impossible.

Originally Posted by Daves911L

This is one of the factors driving our beloved and relatively simple little cars into the stratosphere, pricewise. They can be maintained/repaired almost indefinitely. Thus, they have an appeal that the modern throw away car does not. 356 stops on the side of the road, a guy with a screwdriver, piece of bailing wire, and half a brain stands a better than even chance of getting it going and making it home in time for dinner. Modern car stops on the road, you call a flatbed and wait. Eventually the mechanic hooks up his laptop and tells you what electronic component stopped working, and its never cheap.

Last time it happened to this id10t it was 10pm at night, had been at work since 8, had no flash light, and poor cell coverage. As it happened, the old guy who was the service manager of the local Porsche dealership in the early 70s drove past, recognized the car, and stopped. No bailing wire needed, but a flash light was helpful as was a 3rd hand to hold things - with out either, I wouldn't have cancelled the AAA call for a flatbed

[RANDY P]

Eeh- once these cars all become cheap enough the DIY crowd gets a hold of it, it'll get hacked and fixes will wind up on youtube.

JUst the electronic toy part of it (music and phone integration) will be an issue since there are no longer standard radio sizes.

[A930Rocket]

I removed that box when I lowered my seat in my 930. Ran great but I don’t remember what that box did now.

Originally Posted by Noah930

Even my '87 930 with CIS has a mysterious black box under the driver's seat. When it became faulty, I found out it is out-of-stock. So my mechanic resoldered all the contacts inside of it, and it works again. Where there's a will, there's a way, I suppose.

The benefit of your Boxster, I would think, are the large numbers manufactured. At least you'll have donor cars to cannibalize if/when necessary.

[chapo]

Left my 740 il at my Mechanics shop when we hi 2k trying to get the check engine light to turn off. Passed smog otherwise. what a bs system. Its still there sitting on the side of the shop. I replaced o2 sensors, cats, etc. Its clean but light is on.

[brainz01]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

Eeh- once these cars all become cheap enough the DIY crowd gets a hold of it, it'll get hacked and fixes will wind up on youtube.

JUst the electronic toy part of it (music and phone integration) will be an issue since there are no longer standard radio sizes.

This. There are already plug-n-play aftermarket replacement modules for the ECU and suspension controllers for 997s. And they have more/better functionality.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Most modern cars of today will never be repaired in 20 years. They will be worth so little, they will just go to the junk yard. Image trying to fix the controls of most cars of today they have a central computer controlling the AC, Stereo, and most of the functions of the car. No one will have replacements except maybe the high production number cars if those. Look at the BMW 7 series cars. Resale value from 6 figures that drops to nothing in under 10 years.

And just when ya get the damn thing paid off too

Me neither....

[RANDY P]

Sounding doomsday'ish (channeling inner TABS)

It isn't so much if we can fix the electronics, i'd be more worried about hard parts availability.

Who is to say the manufacturers themselves could be pushing us into electric cars? If you stop making parts for it that'll kill the whole deal.


rjp

[pwd72s]

Time flies when you're having fun. My '09 'Stang will be 10 years old in April. So far, so good...just turned 29,000 on the odo, with zero problems. Given by the book service. Let's see...replacement tires, battery, windshield wipers.

No clue when the shoe will drop.

[fastfredracing]

Im just kidding though, talk about your mustang as much as you want.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

I removed that box when I lowered my seat in my 930. Ran great but I don’t remember what that box did now.

Turbo overboost. Protects against it.

[sc_rufctr]

"Maintaining the modern car 10, 20 years from now."

I hate to say it but will we want to? Electric cars are inevitable.

[rfuerst911sc]

If there is money to be made there will always be aftermarket vendors selling parts and solutions plus scrap yards . What we can't predict is what will govt. officials do via legislation ? But to be honest I don't worry about it . My 02 S runs like a raped ape and if the immobilizer goes bad or the ECM goes bad they can be fixed or replaced . Maybe not easily but it can be done . There are some sensors and of course the wiring harness but again not too bad to work on . I grew up in " the good old days " and yeah you could set the gap on points with a match book cover ................ but you had to do it all the time . Maybe I have just been stupid lucky but EVERY modern car/truck ( 1995 and newer ) has been drop dead reliable with no major repairs . And all of my family has had the same reliable history with " newer " cars .

[wayner]

I am feeling incredible smart right now.

I started looking at Boxsters in 2008.
I was also comparing them against inexpensive longhand 911s.

I rationalized that I would be able to maintain the 911 myself so that is what I bought.
Luck no intelligence...

Before the purchase I also was thinking of a GT3.
It would break the bank but for a track car I thought awesome turn key drive to the track day car.

Then I rationalized that a $20k engine rebuild on the air cooled car is an amount that a GT3 could easily gobble up in an instant if something went wrong. Even looking at duty cycles on the engines scared the heck out of me.

SO I built the longhood into an RSR with a big engine.

Then the market went crazy for long hoods
I now have a new dilemma

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

If it has not happened already-
I see two things in the mail-
Amazon delivers a little package to your door .
It is an electrical buss of sorts.
Unplug the main computer harness, plug the buss in reinserting the main harness and it reads what you want for the Nazi inspections.
Next, it is completely programmable and simple.
You dial in V8- V6 flat 6 whatever and it walks you through the steps.
It now takes over the cars computer and runs it forever more until you elect to change a parameter.
I am almost surprised if I can't order such a piggyback unit already.

That may work on some cars, like Chevy and Fords that sell in the zillions. Every car manufacturer has their own code, and hardware that is simply not compatible with anything but their own system. The last thing any of them want is a way for you to modify the code. Lost of very smart people will be working on it.

Right now on my computer is hardware dongles that HAVE to be in place for a stupidly expensive bit of software to run. And every single time it is run, it has to have an internet connection to "phone home" and and get the authorization code to run. Cars can't go to that extreme, but they can put some buried instruction code in another component that requires the right handshake for the car to run in more than limp home mode.

It will have to be one fantastic bit of hardware and software to run on all cars. I can't see that happening.