Electrical And Plumbing Connections For Espresso Machine

[jyl]

Looking for ideas, advice on the hookups for the espresso machine in the dining room.

Here is where it will go - on a table where that brown drop leaf table is now. It will be right next to the built-in that has the door ajar. I figure on bringing the power, water, and drain lines up through the inside of that built-in. I'll need 1) 240v circuit and receptacle, 2) 120v 15A circuit with standard household double outlet, 3) cold water line with pressure regulator and water filter (can be in basement below) and shut-off valve (either accessible from built-in, or also in basement), 4) drain line that will dump to outside garden.

1) is for the espresso machine. The machine draws max 20A (if all coils of heating element and pump are on). When starting from cold, it will draw 15A for about 1/2 hour. Any draw above 15A will be for a few minutes at most. I plan 10 ga copper THHN in PVC conduit up into the built-in. The run is about 50 feet from the sub-panel. I plan to use a 240V 30A GFCI breaker. I plan to put the electrical box and receptacle in the side of the built-in.

Question: the machine is older (1993) and has a three-wire cord. I assume I should run four wires and ground the receptacle. But I don't really want to try to rewire the machine to four-wire unless you guys think it's necessary.

Question: Am I making this harder than it needs to be? Is there some sort of jacketed 10/4 cable I can simply run through the joists, without bothering with conduit - or is that sloppy? The last 240V circuit I installed used conduit and 6 ga wire, because it is a 50A circuit.

Question: do I need to build some sort of separation inside the built-in to cover up the conduit and electrical boxes? I mean for safety or code reasons?

2) is for the grinder and just because you can never have too many outlets in an old house. I plan to simply connect this to one of the circuits for the basement's 120V outlets, at a handy box, with Romex through joists; Romex will be in conduit when it enters the built-in. The grinder will draw 1.5A. I also plan this receptacle to be in the side of the built-in.

3) is for the espresso machine supply. It wants 25 psi supply. Portland water is very soft but I want a filter anyway. There is a copper line to an outside hose bib, running along a basement joist about 10 feet away. I'm probably going to call a plumber to make the connection into the copper line. The machine uses a hose with a 3/8" (corrected) NPT fitting.

Question: should I have the plumber run copper line all the way to the built-in? I was thinking copper line to the pressure regulator mounted on a joist close to where the connection is, then something like John Guest flexible line and fittings from there. Mount filter in basement where it'll be easy to change, then flexible line up into built-in, then shut-off valve, then cut a hole in the built-in, flexible line exits and appropriate adapter to machine's supply line. Does this sound messy/sloppy? How would you do it? I feel slightly bad because the house has no plastic supply line anywhere, everything is copper, so feels like I'm being lazy/cheap.

4) is for the espresso machine drain. I want to simply dump drain water into the garden outside. The back part of the built-in is a "bump out" so I can simply cut a hole, run flexible line from machine to outside.

Question: Again, does this sound sloppy? I really don't want to connect to the house drain system with vent and all that rigomarole. This line is going to drain plain water with a little coffee, maybe a quart a week.

[jyl]

Basically, imagine the machine below sitting in the corner shown, on some sort of sideboard or dresser or other piece of furniture.

[Zeke]

Lot of questions. The current code states that you need 4 wires to the plug. The equipment ground (EGC) is not a neutral. That machine needs no neutral on the 240v side so leave it capped in the box. Ground the box and the machine through the plug. All wires need "protection" from external damage. You can run them behind a board if you wish. Or use MC cable. No splices can be made outside of a box and no boxes can be concealed.

[jyl]

I've never heard of Sharkbite fittings. Just finished watching a bunch of videos. Seem like exactly what I need. Easy to use and if they do leak, it's just the basement. Maybe I can diy the water part after all.

[dad911]

Well, I deleted my previous post after reading Zeke's, I am unsure about needing neutral for a dedicated outlet, even after reading code. Necessary for new ovens and electric dryers.
Other appliances seem vague. However, it's certainly safe to run 10/3. (white, black, red, and a ground)

For the grinder, consider these flush-mount receptacles: Sillites - Candle For The Window | Electric Window Candles | Flush Mount Receptacle We use them in islands and cabinetry, the device serves as the receptacle and box, just drill an 1-3/4" hole, connect romex and you're done.

Sharkbites and braided water line should serve for water supply.

My concern about drain would be freeze protection, and bugs or rodents using it as an entry. I would not dump it into sewer directly, considering traps and venting.

Is there a laundry tub or sump pit downstairs ?

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by jyl

Question: Am I making this harder than it needs to be? Is there some sort of jacketed 10/4 cable I can simply run through the joists, without bothering with conduit - or is that sloppy?

Yes, it's called MC cable. It's not sloppy at all. If you are doing a remodel it can be a nightmare, if not impossible to fit rigid conduit around existing structure, HVAC, plumbing, etc. I wired my entire 8500 square foot building with it. Looks like this:



For the water supply - 3/4" - for an espresso machine? That's a heck of a lot of water, even at 25 psi. I would run 1/2" pex into the cabinet and install the filter and pressure regulator there. I think the 1/2" at full pressure to the regulator will flow as much volume as 3/4 at 25 psi downstream. I have used Sharkbites. I'm still not convinced they are a lifetime solution, so I don't hide any in walls. I wouldn't hesitate to run PEX with a Sharkbite at each end.

[Zeke]

I'm sure a 1/4 or 3/8 water line to the regulator will be more than sufficient. Use the correct hose indicated from filter to machine. Lower PSI mean lager hose to make volume which can't be that much one cup at a time.

[jyl]

Thanks, everyone!

The 10/4 MC cable sure would be easier than conduit. The 50' run from subpanel to location has to snake around HVAC ducting in one spot. Looks like it will cost 2X as much as 4 x 10 ga THHN in sched 80 PVC conduit, though :-(

I'm not going to run 3/4" water line to the machine - that's just the size of copper line I'll be tapping in the basement. The machine doesn't need that much flow, it's merely pulling 2 oz shots! I've also read not to enclose Sharkbites in walls; here all the water line will be exposed in the basement. Ok, Sharkbites + PEX, this sounds like something I can DIY.

On the pressure regulation: I'm not clear why espresso machines, and some other appliances like my dishwasher, specify 25 psi supply. Seems the machine should tolerate standard house pressure (60-80 psi), since the internal pump is operating near 200 psi anyway. I've been running the machine in my garage from the garden hose w/o pressure regulator, seems fine. But I'll follow the manufacturer's instructions.

The Sillite receptables look like what the doctor ordered, for the 120v receptacle. In fact, the wife has long wanted an outlet in the window buffet (to the right of the photo above) and this might be the ticket there too. Thanks!

I'm not too worried about critters entering the exterior drain line. The line will exit the bottom of the bumpout where the built-in lives, then it is a 3' drop to the ground. I will use some sort of screen to cover the exit. Freezing - hmm, hadn't thought of that. The drain line will be inside the house, except for the exit, and will be draining 180F water.

[jyl]

Now I need to find an appropriate piece of furniture for the machine to sit on. This is proving surprisingly hard. The wife's requirement is that it look like the other furniture (long sideboard and glass front cabinet) in the dining room, she's not going to let me stick a cheap kitchen cart or old dresser there. Turns out there just aren't many 42" wide sideboards floating round the antique stores. Oh well, something will turn up eventually.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by jyl

I'm not going to run 3/4" water line to the machine - that's just the size of copper line I'll be tapping in the basement. The machine doesn't need that much flow, it's merely pulling 2 oz shots!

OK, this had me confused, " The machine uses a hose with a 3/4" NPT fitting. "
If you have a water softener you probably want soft water to the espresso machine. That line to the outside hose bib is likely not running soft water. If you don't have a water softener or other kind of filter or conditioner it won't make any difference.

[jyl]

My bad. 3/8". I'll correct the OP. Sorry!

I don't have or need a water softener anywhere in the house; Portland water is very soft. But I'm going to install a filter. Sometimes the city will work on the water system and then water will be cloudy for a while.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by jyl

Thanks, everyone!

The 10/4 MC cable sure would be easier than conduit. The 50' run from subpanel to location has to snake around HVAC ducting in one spot. Looks like it will cost 2X as much as 4 x 10 ga THHN in sched 80 PVC conduit, though :-(

Make sure you use the special M.C. connectors to connect the cable to the boxes. It looks very similar to a Romex connector except it has a smooth round hole for the conductors to pass through and you use a small red plastic bushing (a “redheadl”) in the end of the jacket to keep it from chafing the conductor.

[jyl]

Circling back. 240v circuit is run, wired in a water heater timer so I don't have to run the machine 24/7. Separate 120v circuit is run, that's for the grinder. Now doing the water bit.

[jyl]

Well I thought the water would be easy. Turn off house water, cut existing copper 1/2" pipe, install sharkbite tee to tap the line. Well, the sharkbite tee leaked. And I had a conference call starting in 1 hour and no water in the house and wife was trying to make dinner. So, ran back to the hardware store. Turns out there is a type of sharkbite made specifically for copper pipe. It works better than the generic sharkbite, for that application. $8 and some cussing later, we have a leak free tap and the house is harmonius again. After my call I'll finish running the poly line.

[wdfifteen]

^^
Congratulations. Seems like there is always a hitch in any DYI job.

[ckelly78z]

PEX water lines with Sharkbite, slipfit connections is what I used to re-plumb my downstairs bathroom, not cheap (about $8 per fitting), but very easy to connect, and disconnect if necessary. No leaks at all on initial turn on.