how are German cars a threat to national security ?

[rfuerst911sc]

Hopefully we can keep this conversation civil , and maybe I'm a dim bulb but how are German cars a threat to national security ? Can someone explain it to me ?


https://www.yahoo.com/news/angela-merkel-mocks-trump-administration-080630533.html

[wdfifteen]

I dunno, but I’ve got four of them. I’m not just a national threat, I’m a national emergency! I expect to see a steel slat wall/fence/barrier going up around my property any day now.

[javadog]

Other than the comment by the idiot politician in Germany, do you have anything that points to the truth of the statement that we are actually considering that? Not talking about China, but cars from Germany.

It's possible she's conflating the German cars with those of another country, as she likely knows that the media will seize on her statement without considering whether or not it's true.

Or, are we talking about a bigger picture? Should we continue seeing our industries decline in favor of importing more of the goods we consume? That might have an impact strategically, as a healthy industrial base would be important if we faced another large scale war. Our industrial capacity had a decisive impact on WW2. A war with China in the future is not out of the question. If they continue to pursue a greater alliance with Russia, it's even more likely.

[MRM]

The issue is the balance of trade between the EU and the US. Germany exports more to the US than the US sells to Germany. The declaration of an emergency would have given the government the authority to impose tariffs that would have addressed the balance of payments between the countries.

Trump considered it a few months ago but decided not to, so I’m not sure what her point was.

[javadog]

Aha. There you go. Something I had not considered.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by javadog

Other than the comment by the idiot politician in Germany, do you have anything that points to the truth of the statement that we are actually considering that? Not talking about China, but cars from Germany.

Last year Trump wanted an excuse to impose tariffs on European car imports. The power to impose tariffs rests with congress unless there is some national security threat. Sunday the commerce department completed a report, ordered by Trump, that concluded that auto imports do pose a threat to national security. “Threat to national security “ allows him to unilaterally impose a tariff. It is reasonable to assume that Germany, being a European country that exports cars, would be subject to Trump’s tariff. As of yesterday Trump is free to impose his tariff.

[rfuerst911sc]

OK balance of trade does make some sense but should that be regulated by government ? Or should the free society free trade alter that balance based on buying preferences ? We have seen many threads on this forum that basically say American cars suck and Euro/Japanese cars are great as an example . That is a 50,000 ft. overview that may or may not be real . But if the " perception " is as stated should the buying community be forced to purchase what they don't want ? Or should the engineers at under performing companies design a better product ?

I'm not trying to sway or alter this conversation I just want to see what others have to say . I love this country and want it to succeed but I want to see it succeed by basically the founding fathers principles . I want to see our country get back to more manufacturing in house I'm just not sure how to get there . I'd hate to think the ONLY way we get there is to rally around a war effort .

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by MRM

Trump considered it a few months ago but decided not to, so I’m not sure what her point was.

He didn’t decide not to, he decided to enlist the commerce department to give him some cover for his claim that imports are a threat to national security. The CD submitted their report yesterday

[DaveE]

Don’t Mercedes, BMW, and VW employ thousands in the south?

[kach22i]

In the early 1970's I was in Jr. High shop class in my school situated directly across from the Ford Rouge plant in Dearborn, Michigan. We had a great shop and reason was we were told is we would all end up working across the street the street or some other factory.

Myself and a few others after High School actually did 5-month to less than 1-year stints at the plants but the economy of the late 70's and early 80's was a time of transition. Our heavy industry jobs went elsewhere in other words.

Back to Jr. High shop class, some days were film days, about once a week. One film we watched several times was called "It's Up To You" but everyone called it "Eddy's Eye" (you don't want to know). Another film was about D-Day invasion, those who fought to free the world and those who fought to enslave it lay side by side............

The film on topic today was called "Our Jobs" or something to the affect, it was a UAW and United Steel Worker's film advocating protections. The one line of the serious sounding narrator I recall as the cameran panned on a bunch of VW Beetles at docks coming in was: Soon Hans and Franz will replace Bob, Joe and you, and you can be assured of that........

To recap, the Germans are bad guys, and keep your shop glasses on.

The UAW and United Steel Workers thank you for watching this film.

The point of the stories above is to create a mindset of my era, the previous generations had even more indoctrination, 4X's?

Children of the 1940's and 1950's speak up.

Truman wanted to nationalize the Steel Industry during the Korean war but was thwarted, he claimed "National Security".

Times were different then, but perhaps minds are not now, the old minds that is.

On September 8, 1950, the U.S. Congress enacted the Defense Production Act. Title II of the Act permitted the president to requisition any facilities, property, equipment, supplies, component parts of raw materials needed for the national defense. Title IV of the Act gave the president the authority to impose wage and price controls in progressive steps (ranging from voluntary controls to controls only in essential industries to overall controls).[4]

National defense and or national security, I say be weary of those who drape themselves in the flag.

EDIT:................and there it is............

Originally Posted by javadog

Our industrial capacity had a decisive impact on WW2.

Maybe javadog is older than I thought.

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

..... I'd hate to think the ONLY way we get there is to rally around a war effort .

But it usually works.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by DaveE

Don’t Mercedes, BMW, and VW employ thousands in the south?

Yep. The BMW plant in S Carolina is (i believe) their biggest. They export most of the vehicles built there.
So German manufactures invest billions in the US, created thousands of jobs, and we show our appreciation by smacking them in the nose with tariffs. Sounds fair.

[fastfredracing]

My old slug subscribes to the " scorched earth " mind set

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Last year Trump wanted an excuse to impose tariffs on European car imports. The power to impose tariffs rests with congress unless there is some national security threat. Sunday the commerce department completed a report, ordered by Trump, that concluded that auto imports do pose a threat to national security. “Threat to national security “ allows him to unilaterally impose a tariff. It is reasonable to assume that Germany, being a European country that exports cars, would be subject to Trump’s tariff. As of yesterday Trump is free to impose his tariff.

Does not seem to be in the spirit of the US Constitution.


Cracking Down on Presidential Power
Jul 24th, 2018
https://www.heritage.org/political-process/commentary/cracking-down-presidential-power

he power of the presidency has grown at the expense of Congress. President Donald Trump’s trade policy is the latest illustration of the fact that the chief executive in the United States is over-mighty. Unfortunately, the progressive left likes it that way.

The founders meant the presidency to be a powerful yet limited office. But President Woodrow Wilson viewed the Constitution’s separation of powers as a problem to be overcome by a powerful president, who would run the administrative state and inspire the people with his progressive oratory.

And since the start of World War II, in the name of national security or political convenience, Congress has sidelined itself by delegating power after power to the executive. This is not — strictly speaking — unconstitutional. But it traduces the spirit of the Constitution.

For example, the Constitution gives Congress the power “to regulate Commerce with foreign nations.” But as Trump’s imposition of tariffs shows, Congress has delegated much of this power to the president.

[Tobra]

why did you start a political discussion here?

[dafischer]

And off to PARF we go.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Tobra

why did you start a political discussion here?

rfuerst911sc said he wanted to keep it "civil".

I think that means he wants to avoid the typical PARF name calling, and one cannot unfortunately do that in PARF.

[rfuerst911sc]

Kach I find this line very interesting : " For example, the Constitution gives Congress the power “to regulate Commerce with foreign nations.” But as Trump’s imposition of tariffs shows, Congress has delegated much of this power to the president. " . My take on this line if it is accurate is that Congress in the past and in the present has been asleep at the wheel . Lets face it a trade imbalance does not happen overnight . Are we at a point where many/all politicians are too scared to make the tough decisions ? Like any decision one makes you are never going to make everyone happy and I guess making everyone happy is not the goal , but to do what is good for the majority ?

I may be naive but I still believe in our system but like any system it is only as good as the laws/procedures/participants are . I can honestly say I haven't been too thrilled with the participants over the last 20 years . At some point in time it will get better ....... I hope

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by kach22i

Truman wanted to nationalize the Steel Industry during the Korean war but was thwarted, he claimed "National Security".

Times were different then, but perhaps minds are not now, the old minds that is.

National defense and or national security, I say be weary of those who drape themselves in the flag.

EDIT:................and there it is............

Maybe javadog is older than I thought.

But it usually works.

Didn't the Previous President do just that? And I think Wilson did the same During WWI?

[rfuerst911sc]

Originally Posted by kach22i

rfuerst911sc said he wanted to keep it "civil".

I think that means he wants to avoid the typical PARF name calling, and one cannot unfortunately do that in PARF.

My intent was just to have a discussion on the merits of the German car companies being a threat to our national security . I would like to think we are smart enough to have a civil discussion without turning to middle school name calling . In my opinion the best way to solve a problem is open discussion/idea sharing . No hidden agenda on my part one way or the other .

[Rtrorkt]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

Kach I find this line very interesting : " For example, the Constitution gives Congress the power “to regulate Commerce with foreign nations.” But as Trump’s imposition of tariffs shows, Congress has delegated much of this power to the president. " . My take on this line if it is accurate is that Congress in the past and in the present has been asleep at the wheel . Lets face it a trade imbalance does not happen overnight . Are we at a point where many/all politicians are too scared to make the tough decisions ? Like any decision one makes you are never going to make everyone happy and I guess making everyone happy is not the goal , but to do what is good for the majority ?

I may be naive but I still believe in our system but like any system it is only as good as the laws/procedures/participants are . I can honestly say I haven't been too thrilled with the participants over the last 20 years . At some point in time it will get better ....... I hope

Wow. Congress has ceded this power through the toadies on the right who won't take on the emperor. Congress has the purse because by design it is a representative body. Not everyone agrees to points, but if the process works right compromise gets it done.

the founding fathers have got to be groaning about now. The only one that talked of an imperial presidency, Hamilton, lived his life under the cloud of his speech promoting that idea. Suggest if the bunch of you want a dictator, and given what I read, it seems many are ok with that, move to Venezuela, Russia or the myriad of African countries run that way. We will be become Zimbabwe under this idiot (to quote Ann Coulter)