What differences are there between portable loud speakers and home units?
 

Talking about multi-way towers. I recently came upon some maybe 70's speakers made in Japan for Realistic. Radio Shack I presume. They are black, have carry handles, metal corner protectors and 1/4" mono jacks. I don't see these jacks on home units ever.

Beyond that, what would you think are any differences in dynamics? They sound clear and big. Kinda blew my Pacific Stereo era 3-ways away. I doubt I can hear much by the way of high frequency anymore but these definitely shove the cymbals out there.

Will be going through an equalizer as soon as I get my stereo project done. I've pulled all the components off the shelf, cleaned things up and serviced the pots and connections. And I'm adding that equalizer.

Funny, over the years I have had a few individual components go south. These include an equalizer, CD player and tape deck (cassette). But my Viet Nam era receiver just keeps on ticking. It puts out a nice sound given what's in the room. I have a newer Harmon Kardon that just doesn't cut it. That'll go in the garage with some Bose bookshelves I have.

I have a ton of old music from vinyl to cassette to CD's. I'm working on getting what I can on drives, thumb and solid state HD.

The Japanese speakers are also 3-way?

Are the drivers sizes similar between the two?

They are probably PA speakers and will do well with the mids and highs, you may need a sub to get down low.

That depends on "low." I've never appreciated a sub woofer. I don't like that type of sound. Subs to me came on the scene about the same time as rap. I can understand why that sound is needed to get the point of rap but it's not the sound I was raised with. In fact, my youth was spent with a single speaker in the dash and an AM table radio. When the stereo revolution hit about the same time as the Beetles I got into that as did my peers. But let's face it, that was then and a long time ago, certainly before surround sound and woofers.

I listened to contemporary music, top 40 if you will, until punk came out. That was it for me and I retreated to my roots while throwing a bit of country into the mix. The Urban Cowboy thing and all that.

So, I don't need big lows. Just wondered about the speakers. PA does make some sense but I wonder what the construction of a dedicated PA speaker would be in comparison to what a small band might set up. Or, these could have been for an early version of a DJ. DJ's have been around for a long time.

I should have opened one up.

Milt, Hell, if they sound good to you, plug them in and enjoy.

FWIW, I had my old 70's JBL's reconed...just wasn't crazy about the sound of today's offerings that I listened to.
Maybe it was just liking what I was used to.

Somewhat, but they aren't really different like say what has been used for large concert speakers. I have been close to a concert bank and that's an amazing experience. Probably lost 10% of my hearing in 10 minutes.

Good question and as I said, I should have opened one up. 10" seems to be a norm.

I agree.

Also with PA systems the amps were higher in distortion, I'm pretty sure the speakers were too.

PA systems were meant to be played at one volume - loud.

The drivers are not delicate nor of light weight construction. Heavy construction can take power, but light construction makes good for lower listening levels and responsive dynamics.

PA System = X15 Rocket ignited

Audiophile System = Powered glider

A PA based system needs to be cranked up to come alive in other words, and that can be fatiguing in the long run, even outdoors.

Bottom Line: If it sounds good to your ears then buy it.

Truth is, as we age we lose our high frequency hearing as the little hairs in our ear canal die out. This means we may favor high frequency leaning systems, and we may not hear the distortion that often comes with it.

Like it, buy it.

To me the true test of a speaker system isn't how good it sounds at any one level, it's how good it sounds at all volume levels. This is a very difficult thing to do.

It's like having an off the line torque master of an engine, and having a peppy high revving engine all rolled into one.

Hey Milt, a good sub woofer,set up correctly as part of an integrated system works
great. They are designed to make up for the lack of bass in the main speakers. The
ones that are boomy are cranked up by idiots who want to vibrate their car or living
room apart. The good ones have a cross over system as well as a volume control so
you can dial in the correct amount of bass so it is correctly balanced with the main
speakers. Also great for home theater set ups

We have to see the speakers to even being to guess at their low end performance.

Most PA systems are large and can produce bass, however if this is not a sealed box, or even ported box and what you have is an open baffle dynamic loudspeaker system then you may lack bass. However this would be my favorite kind of PA speaker as box colorations are reduced.

Remember, PA systems not only can be higher distortion (which you probably will not notice at your age) but they can less accurate and more colored as they are designed for efficiency not accuracy.

Shotgun verses sniper rifle.

The shotgun being the PA system.

I have vintage Polk SDAs available....even if you can't hear the whole 20-20k range....dawgs can ;). 180 lbs each....I've never been a sub man either Milt....these are perfect for ya ;)

Wow, good discussion. I'm sure I underestimated the PPOT brain trust when it came to sound systems.

I like what Paul and others have said more or less, if it works bone't fix it.

BTW, beforehand, I had some pretty nice bookshelf units running on the B side at the same time as my floor speakers. I placed them high sort of like you see some of the trick Bose set ups and they brought a lot of mid range brightness to the overall sound, given the room in which my stuff is located, of course.

BTW, that room is 15 X 15 and full of siht on the walls and lots of furniture to absorb the sound. I mean like this room is dead, sound wise.

I've walked into many houses in my line of work, maybe at my peak a 100 a year, and have seen every sound system there is spare some 25 grand $et (which I have seen and heard one) and I don't like big rooms sparsely furnished with hard surface floors. Yet I see this more often than not. The sound is irritating at any elevated volume.

You guys might criticize me but the last thing I like is those tiny Bose cubes way up in the corners and out about 2 feet supported by a sub buried in the coffee table. The sound is coming from everywhere. I like to face the sound. Maybe that's why I hate the movie theater.

I do headphones now and then but not my favorite these days. Ear buds are nasty. No depth.

PA speakers in the house? Why not!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1550346266.jpg

Horns are supper efficient and will probably not fry an amp with poor impedance matching.

Understanding Impedance
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/understanding-impedance
Yep, mixing PA equipment with home stereo equipment can lead to impedance mismatches that can result in fried amps or speakers.

Maybe I should have started with this? :eek:
Bass node nightmare square rooms are.

Active room equalization may be able to cure that though.

Where did you get your JBLs re coned? I have an old pair of 4311s that need crossovers. They're still one of the best sounding speakers I've ever had.

Search around there are a number of people doing it.
My Altec A7's were in a studio that got broke into, the speakers were too big to steal so they left them behind... but the robbers got the bright idea to burn the studio down to cover their tracks... but the studio had sprinklers so it didn't burn down... but my speakers got soaked. Found a local guy who did reconing out of his garage (did work for Disneyland).
you can even DIY, we had a tech here at work that did his own reconing. I think you can find kits on eBay.
I actually thought of going into the biz.

On a side note, our studio was on federal land so the FBI found the thieves and returned everything they stole.

I am a rocker so Bose is a noze.

Realistic brand was really nothing special back in the day.

Currently running Yamaha power through Infinity surround sound. Nothing special. I have an entire monster set of Polk towers that are boxed and never used.

For music I don't like surround. Believe it or not the best system I ever owned (everyone LOVED) was two pairs af Large Advent Loudspeakers that were stacked. Chrystal clear and could make your ears bleed. I build up two kit Hafler power amps that I bridged. Something like 300 watts. Hafler kit for a pre amp. Pioneer turntable with Grado cartridge. . Whole set up was less than 1500 bucks but performed like a million.

Thanks Scott. I found the parts for the crossovers on line but was afraid to try it myself. Looks like I probably will anyway.

Need to mount the tiny Bose cubes at the same level as you listen...so chairback/sofa height.

Stacked. That's what I am doing. It does do the trick.

To the Realistic comment: agreed. That was never a premium brand although RS did sell some decent stuff now and then. It was all over-priced which I suppose is why they are almost gone now.

If they are made in Japan they are probably old and might be fairly high quality.

I have JBL surround speakers with a 15" powered CV sub, the front satellites were not putting out enough volume and mid-bass for me so I bought some tower speakers for the front. I really liked the Bose towers they had at the time, but in the listening room they had some Sony towers right next to them that sounded almost as good but half the price, I bought the Sony's

When comparing loud speakers be sure they are at rhe same db level.

While that might seem obvious, why? If one set needs more volume to sound at the same perceived level, is that bad?

On that note (:D), I was seriously considering a four-way (4 pairs) speaker switch and then I saw the ones with individual volume controls for each pair. About a Franklin more than a simple switch which I could probably make out of parts from the HD.

Its simply keeping a potential variable a constant. Volume difference can skew your perception of what you like, masking differences in speaker performance. An analogy is bright TV settings at a big box store, the ones they are pushing are adjusted for higher brightness. With equal volume/setup/music, any differences you hear can be mainly attributed to the speakers.

Various speakers have different efficiency. A more efficient speaker will play louder than a less efficient speaker. The louder speaker will sound "better". Once you get to ear splitting levels that won't necessarily hold true due to added distortion.

Efficiency itself does not mean a speaker is better or worse.

This is correct. If you spend money on a high end tv and don't properly calibrated it you might have wasted your money. Most people will have the picture far too bright.

I've rebuild dozens of engines, up to and including a split-case rebuild of my 930's powerplant yet I was always intimidated by speakers.

When I finally tried it, I couldn't believe how simple re-coning a speaker is. As to crossovers: on older loudspeakers it's usually a matter of replacing the worn out capacitors - another simpler-than-expected project.

C'mon, Man, jump in!

_

That was the point buried in my question.

Got it all together this evening and what I have now found using what I have, is that I have to make significant adjustments to the bass and treble and when it sounds better to use the "loudness" button. For instance, listening to radio doesn't seem to need changes once a 'curve' (I'm probably using this word incorrectly) that I like is established. OTOH, a Dylan record "Modern Times" had me backing down everything except playing with the treble whereas some Tom Petty let me 'push' it a lot more. Interestingly, the Dylan produced some distortion while the Petty record allowed me to let the kick bass thump pretty hard and it seemed nice and sharp.

My so called music room is a bit of a man cave with mementos (junk) all over. It's not hard to start things rattling on the walls. A window is not very tight and needs to be shimmed. It's not a perfect world.

I kinda laid off music for a few years but I have more time nowadays.

You know, when I get done with all this I'll want better gear. ;)

In my case, I'm pretty sure a local stereo repair shop farmed them out...but that shop no longer exists. As others said, there are recone places in nearly every city of any size.. google might find one for you.

Yep, portable PA speakers are designed to cover larger areas or outdoors, survive the rigors of portability, and tend to emphasize *loud* over *smooth* response. Call me a fan. I have owned a bunch of them over the years including Altec A7, JBL, and several Electro-Voice for the purpose of pro sound and live performance. My current set of EVs are active with internal biamps and will generate 127db max SPL if necessary. (front row of a Black Sabbath concert SPL)

An 8 ohm PA speaker will work just fine with an 8 ohm amp. The difference is that a quality PA speaker will generate the same sound level or SPL at 5 watts that a nice home speaker will generate with 100 watts. Match your speaker to your amp and if you like your PA speaker you can keep your PA speaker. If it sounds good to you it is good.

The main differece is portable speakers are made to be carried around and home speakers are not. LOL.

Actually thing good home speakers are tuned to create a good sound stage in a room where portable speakers are made to recreate sound in a larger or open area.

In my home I have some old, early 80's speakers I would not trade for anything. Have even had the main speakers woofers rebuilt.

My front surround are dbx SF-150, original and not the DAK dbx either. They are full range designed to produce the same level from both speakers across all frequencies anywhere in the room. The is no "sweet spot." In stereo you can put your ear right in front of one of them and the sound stage does not change, the sound still comes from the entire wall and not that particular speaker. And with 10 inch woofers there is no need for sub-woofers.

My rear surround are Bose 301 bookshelf indirect reflecting speakers. They are designed to disperse their sound so it doesn't come directly from the speakers. That makes them great rear channel surround speaker. And again the are full range. Most rear or dedicated surround speaker are limited in the frequency response.

My center channel is a Radio Shack, Realistic speaker from a pair of small speakers with heavy 4 inch woofer and 1 inch tweeter. Again full range.

Since all 5 speakers are full range and the receiver I use for a surround sound preamp amp tunes the surround to the speakers you have it sounds fantastic, AND anywhere in the room. You can put your each right next to any of the speakers and can barely tell there is any sound coming from it instead of hearing the sound stage. With most surround systems I've listened to you hear the sound coming from whichever speaker is closest unless you are in the small "sweet spot." Especially those with the 4 satellites and one subwoofer.

Setup my surround sound system in 1982. Surround or what they originally call quadraphonic has been encoded in music and video since 1972.

Not disagreeing with SOL about listening levels, but to your point...no, just different ways to get to sonic bliss. My largest Polk SDAs have a dozen drivers in each...not particularly efficient (need gobs of power)....I have run amps bridged mono (1k watts) into each.....also their slightly smaller brothers, whereas my smallest pair are sweet with a 200w stereo amp....but it's not about loud
.....all will produce the whole range humans can hear. And they rock....all of them....just different beasts. I used to have a "house of sound"..... I rocked and eveyone loved my SS system. Even an audiophile acquaintance who came to listen once.. BTW....his measly 17 watt tube system was awesome too :)

If it sounds good to you....nuthin' else matters imo.

My system is "broken", limping, now....but I know just the Pelican to seek ;)

For home based speakers you have to go sonusfaber.com

Nothing compares. Portable don't know, I just listen to my iPhone through jaber ear pods. They're very good.

The holy grail is to accurately reproduce a live performance. That leaves a lot of variability, but that’s the audiophile dream. Room acoustics and speaker positioning are probably more important than the speakers themselves.

^^^^ Perfect....that's always been what it's been about for me...I don't care what anyone else does. I drooled over Polk SDAs back in the mid-80s....gimmick? I have three vintage pairs....they rock.

Half of my recordings are live shows....some are simply jaw dropping (again)....in my living room....if I choose to ;)

It’s like the old adage: it’s more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car fast.

Work on your room acoustics...it’s more fun to make cheap speakers sound great. Nailing the soundstage is a hoot. You sit in that perfect window and with two speakers you can pick out the location of each instrument in the room...and they’re not always located between the two speakers.

^^^^^ If you have EVER heard SDAs....properly set up....big ol' :)...everywhere out front.

I miss Ian....;)....he disagreed....but I'm poor!

SDA took a whole different path. A bunch of speakers with some in the left being driven by rhe right signal and a few on the right driven by the left feed, i think they had an extra cable that went from left to right speaker. They were really power hungry and speaker placement and listening position were more than just critical. Heard a pair at a shop that I frequented and they sounded spectacular.

A high end amp manufacturer (name escapes me, wanna say Crown but that's not right) tried to do the same thing electronicly.

I've never heard Polk's that I liked, but that SDA setup sounds interesting.

McIntosh marketed a separate center channel (preamp/processor/amp/speaker) long before anyone else as an alternate to mono and stereo listening of the day. This was decades before Pro-Logic and the out of phase rear surround speakers.

McIntosh has always been champs about imaging a solid phantom center stage, I guess at some point they went that extra step.

Good stereo in my opinion isn't just a left and right channel, it is R&L, phantom Center with depth and a sense of the recording space around you. This is why I'm a flat panel guy, I don't like flat sound.

It was Carver that tried the technology in an amp.

It's been a long time since I looked into them but I think my description is pretty close.