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Sunroof 02-28-2019 07:04 AM
When I was in the Air Force (1966-1970) I was an Air Freight Specialist and loaded hundreds of aircraft mostly the ones referred to that Glen's father flew (C-124, C-123, C-54, C-47, C-130, etc) at Travis AFB and Vietnam. The Load Masters or Crew Chiefs were careful on freight balance as each pallet of freight that was bagged and netted varied. The locking systems were very stable and effective when installed (nothing on most C-47s or C-54's). I wondered if this 767 went down due to a sudden cargo shift.

Bob
73.5T

rattlsnak 02-28-2019 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunroof (Post 10371881)
I wondered if this 767 went down due to a sudden cargo shift.

Bob
73.5T
Thats the least likely thing, but cant say it wasnt for sure, but I mentioned earlier, these planes are freighters and have a huge Rigid Forward Cargo wall in the front. There is no where for cargo to shift forward enough to cause that.

Let me rephrase that and say I would be very surprised if that whats caused it. It would have to be special circumstances, like it only had one huge pallet in the center and it broke free, and then the wall failed, etc, etc..

unclebilly 02-28-2019 10:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by afterburn 549 (Post 10372690)
How far does a 5 ton piece of equipment need to roll B4 the CG is so far off the elevators no longer can force the nose up?
I am thinking 5 tons moved 15 to 20 feet fwd would pretty much do the job? maybe less .?
Based on early reports of floating debris including woman’s clothing, amazon boxes, etc, I don’t think this plane was carrying a 5 ton piece of equipment.

911_Dude 03-01-2019 02:53 AM
The plane was most likely completely filled with "cans" of Amazon boxes.Load shift unlikely. The demand for air cargo is way over capacity world wide. Empties are rare.

flipper35 03-01-2019 09:48 AM
Elevator bell crank shear bolts. My guess.

The 747 that crashed in the video above, the cargo shifted aft. A CG too far aft does not allow the pilot to recover. I don't see how this is cargo shifting around, unless it caught fire, smoke in the cockpit or some other strange happening.

The Cessna 414 that just crashed came apart mid-air.

rattlsnak 03-01-2019 04:07 PM
They found the FDR today so hopefully we find out something soon.

Jolly Amaranto 03-01-2019 08:48 PM
I heard it was the voice recorder.

rattlsnak 03-02-2019 12:55 PM
Yes.. hope they find the FDR soon. Lot of people in the industry wondering what the heck happened..

rattlsnak 03-03-2019 04:11 PM
They found the FDR today..

unclebilly 03-03-2019 04:30 PM
Great news. I wonder how long before we find out what went wrong.

flipper35 03-04-2019 11:36 AM
I suspect a preliminary report could be soon, otherwise I would guess a year or two for the final report.

red-beard 03-05-2019 04:40 PM
https://www.click2houston.com/news/black-box-indicates-loss-of-control-before-trinity-bay-plane-crash-ntsb-says

Quote:
WASHINGTON - An initial review of the black box recovered at the scene of last month’s plane crash into Trinity Bay indicates a loss of control of the aircraft just before the crash, officials at the National Transportation Safety Board said Tuesday.
Atlas Air Flight 3591, which was being operated on behalf of Amazon, crashed Feb. 23 into the waters off Anahuac, Texas.

NTSB investigators said both the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder were recovered at the crash site over the weekend. An initial review of the data revealed the quality of the audio is poor, and there are times when it is difficult to make out what the crew is saying. However, crew communications indicate a loss of control of the plane about 18 seconds before the recording ends.

About 350 data points that were recorded by the black box detail the motion of the aircraft and the operation of its engines, flight controls and other systems, according to NTSB investigators.
An analysis of the devices continues and a summary of the data is expected to be provided in a few days, NTSB investigators said.

All three people aboard the twin-engine Boeing 767 were killed when the plane plunged into the water about 40 miles southeast of its destination at George Bush Intercontinental Airport.

KNS 03-05-2019 05:00 PM
I feel bad for the Mesa Airlines pilot (well, I feel terrible for all three). He was simply Jump-seating (hitching a ride).

seafeye 03-05-2019 05:35 PM
The Atlas jumpseater who lost his life on Flight 3591 had just been hired by and had already been assigned his class date with United.

UA left his seat vacant during his Indoc class and presented wings and epaulets to his widow. Hats off for an awesome gesture of kindness, respect, and utmost class"

#thepilotwifelife #respect #makekindnessviral

red-beard 03-07-2019 04:22 PM
Here is the Warehouse full of debris

https://www.click2houston.com/news/inside-look-debris-from-deadly-cargo-plane-crash-held-in-warehouse?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&ut m_campaign=snd&utm_content=kprc2&fbclid=IwAR1GP4Br clyGGV2LUQHLUmC5JTHAImr62_FajMaUpkpoJwfessfFDDpDSu o

dafischer 03-13-2019 10:09 AM
I saw a brief bit on ABC World News last night that said that the throttles were advanced to Full, and the controls were set to a 49 deg. down angle. They didn't speculate what happened, or what (or who) caused this.

pavulon 03-13-2019 10:48 AM
Other than attempted stall recovery or suicide, are there other reasons for a (crashed) aircraft on approach to land to be at full throttle?

stevej37 03-13-2019 11:33 AM
Not trying to downplay this tragedy....but some humor might be needed.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WMhYl74vw2c" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Jolly Amaranto 03-13-2019 11:52 AM
In the Houston Chronicle today:
Quote:
Turbulence could be to blame in the deadly Atlas Air cargo plane crash last month near Anahuac, a new report finds.

An analysis of Atlas Air Flight 3591's flight data recorder by the National Transportation Safety Board shows that the Boeing 767 experienced "small vertical accelerations" similar to what planes experience during turbulence shortly before it began to plunge into Trinity Bay around noon on Feb. 23.

The plane was en route to Bush Intercontinental Airport when it diverted around a small storm system east of Houston, according to the NTSB. During that route, the plane gradually descended to 6,200 feet, similar to a plane's final descent to land, before shortly climbing up to 6,300 feet.
Seconds later, the plane's engines were turned up to maximum thrust. The plane pitched slightly upward before turning downward at a 49 degree angle, almost doubling its speed to 430 knots as it plummeted to the ground.

The plane pitched up during its descent, but it never fully recovered. Security video from a nearby Chambers County Sheriff's Office facility captured the plane's final moments as it crashed into Trinity Bay, sending a plume of water, mud and debris high into the air.

Sooner or later 03-13-2019 11:55 AM
US grounded them immediately

gordner 03-13-2019 12:03 PM
Grounded who, atlas air or the 767? Neither one that I know of were grounded.

Neilk 03-13-2019 12:06 PM
Wrong airplane crash thread, sadly there is more than one.

stevej37 03-13-2019 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooner or later (Post 10389243)
US grounded them immediately
??

Sooner or later 03-13-2019 12:09 PM
Sorry, wrong plane. All 737 max

flipper35 03-13-2019 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dafischer (Post 10389075)
I saw a brief bit on ABC World News last night that said that the throttles were advanced to Full, and the controls were set to a 49 deg. down angle. They didn't speculate what happened, or what (or who) caused this.
I am not exactly sure what you mean by this?

dafischer 03-13-2019 01:10 PM
I would assume they meant flaps.

kach22i 03-13-2019 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by red-beard (Post 10366995)
Local here in Houston. North Trinity Bay, which is east of Houston, on route to IAH.

Bodies already found, no survivors.

Atlas air cargo plane.

From the link:
https://www.click2houston.com/news/boeing-767-cargo-jet-crashes-into-trinity-bay-3-people-aboard-faa-says
Quote:
The sheriff said witnesses told authorities the plane went into a nose dive, then went into the water nose-first.

Hawthorne said witnesses said they heard what sounded like lightning before the plane went down.

"We first started getting 911 reports of eyewitnesses that watched it go nose-first into the bay," Hawthorne said.
Tragic.

gordner 03-13-2019 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipper35 (Post 10389338)
I am not exactly sure what you mean by this?
That is not well written, my understanding is the aircraft was at a 49 degree down angle, not that controls were set for that. Powered up and pitched down essentially.

dafischer 03-13-2019 01:30 PM
Just relaying what I heard on the new last night....

flipper35 03-13-2019 01:52 PM
Thanks. I read it went full power and 4* pitch up, then pitched down to almost 50* (would be that 49* I guess) and then raised its nose to 20* nose down when it impacted.

Deep stall and no room to recover?

(edit, maybe should have said power on stall)


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