Amazon plane crash

[red-beard]

Local here in Houston. North Trinity Bay, which is east of Houston, on route to IAH.

Bodies already found, no survivors.

Atlas air cargo plane.

https://www.click2houston.com/news/boeing-767-cargo-jet-crashes-into-trinity-bay-3-people-aboard-faa-says

[nvr2mny]

Yes, very sad. Hope they find the black boxes.

[LakeCleElum]

Heard it happened in Texas and not the Amazon River??????

[HardDrive]

Damn shame. Glad it was not a populated area.

[unclebilly]

Thanks to the quick thinking if those on board to ditch it in the pond and not in a populated area.

Condolences to their families.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

Heard it happened in Texas and not the Amazon River??????

Amazon as in the retailer, it was a Prime Air aircraft that is leased from Atlas. Amazon has their own cargo aircraft now. RIP to the pilots. It will be interesting to see what they learn, because there were no obvious circumstances that led to the crash.

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

Thanks to the quick thinking if those on board to ditch it in the pond and not in a populated area.

Condolences to their families.

The flight path does make it look like that is the case.

[rattlsnak]

Looking like some sort of catastrophic failure. -Meaning they had no control over where it was going.

[GH85Carrera]

It is strange the came in at such a steep angle. The pilot must have lost complete control to just spike into the ocean like that. No doubt the NTSB will find the cause.

My first thought was it was like the Boeing Malaysian crash recently in a 777. The Amazon crash was a 767. The anti stall system sounds like a total cluster fudge. One of my acquaintances is an airline pilot that flies the 777. He said they were just in level flight, normal cruise and the anti-stall system kicked in and started to nose down. Fortunately he knew to just pull the breaker for that system. He said there was nothing in the operations manual. His co-pilot was a total procedure manual pilot and said that was not the procedure but he was just the co-pilot. They were lucky he was not in charge. The procedure has been updated to include pulling the breaker now.

I just wonder if the 777 and the 767 share that anti stall "feature" or if it is totally different. Just pure speculation.

[unclebilly]

If you look at the flight path, I think it was deliberately put down in that swamp when something went wrong.

Let’s see what the black boxes say if / when they are found.

[rattlsnak]

They either had a control malfunction or one of them wanted to die.

[wdfifteen]

Control malfunction plus intentionally putting it in the bay seems like a contradiction.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Control malfunction plus intentionally putting it in the bay seems like a contradiction.

Well, yes and no.

The Gimli Glider and most recently Sully lost power but still had control.

Gimli had enough altitude for them to maneuver to a landing.

Sully put it down as fast as he could where he could.

Maybe the control these guys had left was just enough to get it out of the air.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Well, yes and no.

The Gimli Glider and most recently Sully lost power but still had control.

Gimli had enough altitude for them to maneuver to a landing.

Sully put it down as fast as he could where he could.

Maybe the control these guys had left was just enough to get it out of the air.

They both lost propulsion, not use of controls. I don't see a parallel at all.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

They both lost propulsion, not use of controls. I don't see a parallel at all.

That assumes full loss of controls.

Maybe the only control they had was down.

You do what you can with what you got is the parallel.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

The large "Booms " as described I would guess is one engine that shot its guts out.
We all know when blades, wheels get ejected out it is like a hand grenade or worse going off.
All sorts of failures can be induced by shrapnel.

The odds of a rotorburst event taking out all of the flight controls are pretty slim. The engine OEMs have to certify by test that the shrapnel will all be contained within the case, and the airframe OEMs have to certify that critical systems are either not in the potential impact zone or are protected. I would guess that the primary flight controls on a 767 are at lease double if not triple redundant, and they would be on isolated circuits that would keep an issue on one wing from impacting other systems. It’s not totally fail safe but seeing how castrophic this crash was I suspect it was something else. Poorly secured cargo containers breaking loose in flight and causing a dramatic CG shift has happened before on cargo aircraft.

[Aurel]

How old was the plane?
What was in the cargo area?

[unclebilly]

26 years old. It was a converted passenger plane.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

I have no clue of its age (jeff would know or have access to it) but if they had unsecured load shift I am not sure how that would have caused an audible boom outside the plane?

If they were in a really steep dive, maybe it was a sonic boom. Just wild ass guessing. I don't know just how fast they were going.

For sure if they get going too fast the aircraft will start to break apart. I heard there is an unreleased security camera footage from a local jail that captured the crash. They will tell them if it was in one piece before impact.

I don't envy the folks investigating this. Working in mud that is many feet deep is going to be a challenge.

[Nate2046]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

The odds of a rotorburst event taking out all of the flight controls are pretty slim. The engine OEMs have to certify by test that the shrapnel will all be contained within the case, and the airframe OEMs have to certify that critical systems are either not in the potential impact zone or are protected.

I’m not going to speculate as to cause, but an uncontained failure isn’t something I’d rule out. Certification doesn’t always translate to real world results.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_383_(2016)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_1288

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_32

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1380

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232