The comments too.

and now this:

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/travel/boeing-rejects-claim-shoddy-production-dreamliner-factory-n996861

Some pretty scary worker reports...

You can hear the same type talk from damn near any facility.

I was responsible for in plant and outgoing quality at several tire plants. I was a rare one since I advanced in the production side and then moved into the quality organization. The balance between production and quality was most always a head knocker.

It would have been a fascinating comparison of regional cultures.

I trust this isn't too far off topic, but has anyone read about offshoring some of the engineering?

Aug 24 2017
How Boeing and Airbus use Russia's expertise to develop their airplanes
https://www.rbth.com/business/2017/08/24/how-boeing-and-airbus-use-russias-expertise-to-develop-their-airplanes_827604

Nothing is "designed" at the BDC by their "Russian engineers". The article has it completely wrong. These BDC "engineers" do some of the drafting (on programs that still use paper drawings) and CAD modeling (in CATIA V5) of designs that are fed to them by Boeing engineers. Anything they do actually "design" is pretty low level, repetitive stuff, like a dozen variations of the same bracket (that a Boeing engineer originally designed), or doubler, or stringer, or whatever, for use in different locations. All really low level, essentially drafting type work. The kind of stuff kach could even do, with proper oversight.

Even Kach? Damn...

You forgot the luggage shelves they did for Airbus.

It still cracks me up that someone in the forum thought Jeff was one of the higher ups at Boeing, yet another posted a photo of a former CEO.

You can be anything you want to be on the Internet, hey Jeff?

Never claimed to be anything other than a lowly AOG tooling engineer. I had a wonderful career, had the opportunity to do some really cool and unique things, and truly enjoyed every minute of it. I'm sorry if that upsets you so, kach.

Back to those Russian "engineers". The BDC has the highest turnover of any group with which we have ever worked. We had nothing but problems with the work coming from them, with the majority of it having to be reworked once it got to us. They were impossible to work with in an effort to get them to improve as well. They simply weren't interested. They would much rather spend their days surfing the internet, and billing us for the hours they spent doing so. That, and they considered themselves "experts" in all manner of things they had never done and did not understand.

So, yes, kach would fit right in. He might even shine a little bit against a backdrop like that. Maybe then he wouldn't be so angry, resentful, and envious of those of us who have enjoyed meaningful, fulfilling careers.

You sure did nothing to correct errors you helped promote Mr. Expert.

You should stick to doing stupid things on your motorcycle and when confronted cower away in the stench of your own farts.

Great story, but I wonder why you posted it.

I put a good deal of effort into correcting your many errors in that conversation. So did many others. You were simply unable to comprehend, much less accept, our knowledge in topics you clearly did not understand.

I've done a lot of stupid things on my motorcycles. Could you be more specific? I have no idea to which story you refer. :confused:

Everything you just said is a lie, have you been practicing?

You don't know what you are talking about, and pointing out that others are just as ill-informed proves nothing.

The fact that you cannot keep track of the stupid things you have done is a warning sign. Maybe you have someone look into that for you, someone that doesn't just make stuff up to boost their own ego.

He didn't say he can't keep track, he asked for you to be more specific.

I don't know Jeff from a hole in the wall and have no dog in the roost, but try comprehending what was written.

So, are you saying you have no crayons?

Kach,
Might I suggest you put Mike on your Ignore list?
That way you won't be offended by his presence on this board.
And, if you cease your shrill attacks perhaps some of us won't be offended by yours.

Best
Les

There you go - you sound exactly like one of the Russian "engineers" at the BDC. Give it a go, kach - they are always hiring. You would finally be among kindred spirits.

I actually see it as a badge of honor, of sorts. I have absolutely done more stupid schitt in my life than I will ever be able to remember. Some of it has even left some scars, to help me remember. Those were the best ones.

My ego needs no "boosting". You can ask anyone who has actually met me, and they will tell you that I really don't even have one to boost.

I do, however, like to spin a good yarn. It's actually a well respected art form amongst us Irish. The best stories always have an element of truth, with the general rule of thumb being that as one ages and his stories "mature", the grain of truth that started the story becomes ever more suspect. It's all a part of the fun.

Unless, of course, one is an unaccomplished spectator to life, full of resentment over others' lives and accomplishments. Then one becomes quite humorless, constantly looking to pick the fly schitt out of the pepper in every story one hears, hoping to seize some sort of "gotcha!" moment from which one can accuse the story teller of "lying", in some feeble, desperate hope of elevating one's self over the story teller.

That's you in a nutshell, kach. On full display, for all of us to see. It's sad. As I've mentioned many times already, I do honestly feel sorry for you. Maybe a move to Moscow would do you some good. You could impress those other losers over there by claiming to know some "big wheel" at Boeing, since you keep insisting I've claimed to be one. You might even get a cubicle close to a window.

How about you quit ****ing up yet another thread with your mindless attacks on Higgins?

Better yet, how about you just read this thread, since you don't have much to contribute on this specific topic.

We can all do a Google search and most of us can read on our own now.

I am in Aviation and I fully believe Jeff's credentials as he has described them here, have very much enjoyed the information he supplies on multiple threads, and have yet to see him post information that is inaccurate.
Kach, well, nothing flattering to say there so I will leave it at that.

there goes another thread, thanks kach


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1556052672.jpg

edit: more

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Bless you, Les. I am working on becoming more Les-like:)

I was the Chief Government Flight Test guy at the Sikorsky Factory for three years. Big factories are hard to manage due to many competing factions...while my sphere of influence was from aircraft induction into the flight hangar forward to flight test and acceptance, I worked on the manufacturing floor quite a bit.

It was one of the best tours of duty I had...incredible to see metal on Jig 1 become an aircraft I flew. I did have issues, shut down production twice in my three years due to QA issues...shut down the entire CH-53E production line for months after an accident that killed my roommate (my family stayed in Maryland). It is rough and tumble.

There are any, many checks and balances in aircraft production...Boeing may have hurdles to overcome, but they will. They have to.

Let's get back on track here. I was kind of reluctant to discuss the South Carolina thing, but what the hell, I'll share my experiences and observations.

Our union mechanics lovingly refer to them as the "South Carolina Airplane Builders" - SCAB. They have nothing but disdain for their Southern counterparts. Not just because they feel they are stealing their jobs, but mostly because they are tired of cleaning up their mess, airplane after airplane.

I cannot remember how many 787's roll out of Everett compared to SCAB, but I think I remember the numbers were about half a dozen or more out of Everett for every one out of South Carolina, and South Carolina has more people working on them. To add insult to injury, every airplane leaving SCAB flies directly to Everett, where it spends some time on the flight line getting reworked to correct all of its problems, and finished up so that it is ready for delivery.

Countless people from Everett have gone to South Carolina to try to help them through their production problems. They universally come back with two observations: the work ethic down there is quite poor, and the level of education of their mechanics and assembly workers is not high enough to allow them to work on something as complex as an airplane.

There is a certain minimum level of reading comprehension required to perform this kind of work. In airplane building, there are detailed work instructions that need to be read and understood, drawings that need to be read and understood, and that kind of thing. Their typical public school system high school graduate is incapable of doing either.

Much has been written about the sad state of affairs of their public education system down there. In speaking with their engineers, they will readily admit that anyone who can afford to send their kids to private schools does so and, as a result, they see no reason to adequately fund their public schools. The only kids attending public schools are only there because their parents cannot afford anything else. This is where SCAB's mechanics and assemblers come from. They function at what most of us would consider about a fifth grade level, if that. They simply do not possess the tools to do what they are being asked to do.

The guys that are tasked with going down there to help are met with that, and their horrible work ethic. Trying to deal with them quickly sees one rejected as some damn Yankee know-it-all, trying to tell these good ol' boys how to do their jobs. They're having none of it. They get pretty damn hostile about it... Even their own engineers, as a matter of fact, get the same treatment to some degree. Most of them are from somewhere else anyway, so they have an equally difficult time with these lazy, uneducated, stand off-ish factory workers.

I believe most companies who manufacture products of even modest complexity who have looked to The South as a ready pool of cheap labor have eventually left in frustration. It gets to be pretty obvious fairly quickly what they are up against. I wonder how much longer this situation will be allowed to fester. The only way I see it surviving is if all of the labor winds up being imported from somewhere else. Boy, talk about some local friction and unrest if it ever comes to that...