Originally Posted by javadog (Post 10436493)

......your mindless attacks on Higgins?

Originally Posted by afterburn 549 (Post 10436783)

If he was real he would have helped others here a long time ago.

Originally Posted by oldE (Post 10436778)

What a hoot!
I misnamed:Mr. Higgins.
MIke Higgins was a guy who lived across the hall 46 years ago.
Sorry, Jeff.
Seriously though, you could have made the last post without the architect crack.
You're better than that.
Best
Les

Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 10436847)

He attacked me first you mindless idiot butt sniffer.

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 10436696)

Let's get back on track here. I was kind of reluctant to discuss the South Carolina thing, but what the hell, I'll share my experiences and observations.

Our union mechanics lovingly refer to them as the "South Carolina Airplane Builders" - SCAB. They have nothing but disdain for their Southern counterparts. Not just because they feel they are stealing their jobs, but mostly because they are tired of cleaning up their mess, airplane after airplane.

I cannot remember how many 787's roll out of Everett compared to SCAB, but I think I remember the numbers were about half a dozen or more out of Everett for every one out of South Carolina, and South Carolina has more people working on them. To add insult to injury, every airplane leaving SCAB flies directly to Everett, where it spends some time on the flight line getting reworked to correct all of its problems, and finished up so that it is ready for delivery.

Countless people from Everett have gone to South Carolina to try to help them through their production problems. They universally come back with two observations: the work ethic down there is quite poor, and the level of education of their mechanics and assembly workers is not high enough to allow them to work on something as complex as an airplane.

There is a certain minimum level of reading comprehension required to perform this kind of work. In airplane building, there are detailed work instructions that need to be read and understood, drawings that need to be read and understood, and that kind of thing. Their typical public school system high school graduate is incapable of doing either.

Much has been written about the sad state of affairs of their public education system down there. In speaking with their engineers, they will readily admit that anyone who can afford to send their kids to private schools does so and, as a result, they see no reason to adequately fund their public schools. The only kids attending public schools are only there because their parents cannot afford anything else. This is where SCAB's mechanics and assemblers come from. They function at what most of us would consider about a fifth grade level, if that. They simply do not possess the tools to do what they are being asked to do.

The guys that are tasked with going down there to help are met with that, and their horrible work ethic. Trying to deal with them quickly sees one rejected as some damn Yankee know-it-all, trying to tell these good ol' boys how to do their jobs. They're having none of it. They get pretty damn hostile about it... Even their own engineers, as a matter of fact, get the same treatment to some degree. Most of them are from somewhere else anyway, so they have an equally difficult time with these lazy, uneducated, stand off-ish factory workers.

I believe most companies who manufacture products of even modest complexity who have looked to The South as a ready pool of cheap labor have eventually left in frustration. It gets to be pretty obvious fairly quickly what they are up against. I wonder how much longer this situation will be allowed to fester. The only way I see it surviving is if all of the labor winds up being imported from somewhere else. Boy, talk about some local friction and unrest if it ever comes to that...

Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 10436847)

He attacked me first you mindless idiot butt sniffer.

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 10436696)

Let's get back on track here. I was kind of reluctant to discuss the South Carolina thing, but what the hell, I'll share my experiences and observations.

Our union mechanics lovingly refer to them as the "South Carolina Airplane Builders" - SCAB. They have nothing but disdain for their Southern counterparts. Not just because they feel they are stealing their jobs, but mostly because they are tired of cleaning up their mess, airplane after airplane.

I cannot remember how many 787's roll out of Everett compared to SCAB, but I think I remember the numbers were about half a dozen or more out of Everett for every one out of South Carolina, and South Carolina has more people working on them. To add insult to injury, every airplane leaving SCAB flies directly to Everett, where it spends some time on the flight line getting reworked to correct all of its problems, and finished up so that it is ready for delivery.

Countless people from Everett have gone to South Carolina to try to help them through their production problems. They universally come back with two observations: the work ethic down there is quite poor, and the level of education of their mechanics and assembly workers is not high enough to allow them to work on something as complex as an airplane.

There is a certain minimum level of reading comprehension required to perform this kind of work. In airplane building, there are detailed work instructions that need to be read and understood, drawings that need to be read and understood, and that kind of thing. Their typical public school system high school graduate is incapable of doing either.

Much has been written about the sad state of affairs of their public education system down there. In speaking with their engineers, they will readily admit that anyone who can afford to send their kids to private schools does so and, as a result, they see no reason to adequately fund their public schools. The only kids attending public schools are only there because their parents cannot afford anything else. This is where SCAB's mechanics and assemblers come from. They function at what most of us would consider about a fifth grade level, if that. They simply do not possess the tools to do what they are being asked to do.

The guys that are tasked with going down there to help are met with that, and their horrible work ethic. Trying to deal with them quickly sees one rejected as some damn Yankee know-it-all, trying to tell these good ol' boys how to do their jobs. They're having none of it. They get pretty damn hostile about it... Even their own engineers, as a matter of fact, get the same treatment to some degree. Most of them are from somewhere else anyway, so they have an equally difficult time with these lazy, uneducated, stand off-ish factory workers.

I believe most companies who manufacture products of even modest complexity who have looked to The South as a ready pool of cheap labor have eventually left in frustration. It gets to be pretty obvious fairly quickly what they are up against. I wonder how much longer this situation will be allowed to fester. The only way I see it surviving is if all of the labor winds up being imported from somewhere else. Boy, talk about some local friction and unrest if it ever comes to that...

Originally Posted by javadog (Post 10436857)

Yeah, but you’re the one that never lets it go. It wasn’t even on this thread, so **** off.

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 10436929)

I did nothing of the kind, and everyone on this forum knows it.

Originally Posted by A930Rocket (Post 10437029)

I got out as soon as I could to go back to building homes and hope I never have to fly on a 787.

Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 10437345)

Liar


Liar

Anyone can go back and check this thread, lairs get no respect from me.

They might get a laugh out of me, but no respect.

Originally Posted by javadog (Post 10437368)

Your dislike for Higgins goes back to well before this thread even started. And no, you can’t let it go, because you in the last day, you have continued this stupid obsession of years.

Face it, knucklehead, nobody here respects you. Nobody.

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 10436696)

Let's get back on track here. I was kind of reluctant to discuss the South Carolina thing, but what the hell, I'll share my experiences and observations....

Originally Posted by sammyg2 (Post 10437420)

I don't even talk to myself anymore, I don't care for his attitude ;)

Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 10436864)

One of your better posts Jeff, I wonder how it would be received in PARF?

Figure 1. North America – motor vehicle industry footprint, 2010
ERIEP
http://revel.unice.fr/eriep/docannex...3369/img-1.png

Most of the North American automobile plants have figured out how to achieve quality despite regional differences.

Maybe instead of the automobile companies borrowing executives from Boeing, Boeing should be recruiting from the automobile industry?

Just a thought.

Originally Posted by gordner (Post 10437700)

Planes are not special, they are just machines, just like a car. There is stringent quality control in production that may exceed that in automotive, but all the same, airplanes are pretty basic machines. Most of the tech in aircraft is 50 years plus old, it takes forever for systems advancements to make their way into aviation due to the certification costs and time. Systems are almost always mature, tried and true before they will implement in an aircraft. At the end of the day, assembly line jobs are the same in aviation as any other industry, carried out by the lowest paid person they can get to do the job. The control doesn't come from the worker on the floor, it comes from the quality systems associated with the process.

Originally Posted by afterburn 549 (Post 10437708)

The FFA has created so much red tape involved in certifying anything new it is just plain cheaper to use the old crap.
If anyone wants to put a new and better part on their certed AC, they cant! Not without endless hoops to jump.
This limits progress.