Again, asking for advice from the brain trust

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

^^
Thanks for the history lesson.
Whatever it gets used for will be decorative. The wood is OK - not good for an exterior window but good enough for her art project.

This is the key statement, IMO^^, and should determine how extensive your efforts should be.

If she wants the "vintage" look, then leaving the glazing in it's cracked/brittle state may be appropriate and will save considerable time and effort. Lightly scraping the frame with an application of heat can get rid of the loose, peeling, flaking paint and leave a paint stained/streaked frame that is smooth.

If she wants a more updated look but still not to be used outdoors, then you're facing much more labor and I would suggest, removing the panes and have the frame dipped. It will be enough of an effort to simply remove all those panes. Some of that old glazing will pop right out, but there will always be a portion of each pane frame that the putty is rock-solid and refuses to budge without the use of heat.

In short, get a clear picture of her finished project before committing to any of the methods mentioned. And don't forget to protect yourself from lead!

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by serene911

Either way it is a ton of work. That is why nobody has tackled it before as well as why windows like this end up in salvage yards or garage
sales for cheap.

I've got a feeling these are going to be stored for a few years, moved from place to place to get them out of the way a few dozen times, and then they'll end up in a garage sale for cheap. I already have plenty of projects and I sure as heck don't have the time or the desire to strip them down. I don't think MrsWD has time to do it either. I don't think this was a wise purchase.
Ossi, it's good advice to get an idea what her final plans for those windows are before doing anything to them. I'll tell her to think long and hard about what she ultimately wants to do with them.

I've got some 1/2 PVC conduit laying around here someplace. I'll try ripping a slot in it with my 4" grinder. If that doesn't work I'll just lay a 1x4 on top of it before I rebury it. I've got engines to build and cars to drive!

[MBAtarga]

To protect the DSL cable - can't you just use some plastic cabling loom product like you can purchase at your FLAPS? It may not protect against a shovel at full force - but if Mrs WD typically uses small hand tools it would work fine.

The other option with the 1/2 PVC conduit - if you've got a table saw, just set the fence over 1/4" from the blade and lower the blade to cut through the bottom surface only. It will make very quick work of cutting a slot the full length of the conduit. (BTDT!)

[Zeke]

This page shows some interesting window glazing putty removal aids. I had one years ago that was a simple heating coil strung along an edge of a hand held tool that could also be left in place on the glass pane to heat the next section of putty while you scraped out the previous one.

I couldn't find a pic of the thing anywhere so it must be obsolete.

Heating with electric is much safer on all fronts. If lead is present you aren't apt to heat it to the point that smoke is rising from your work. Best to do this outside with appropriate PPE.

Repairing old wood sash with bondo is legitimate but the soft wood must be consolidated first.

[vash]

Weird

I’m reading regulations concerning underground utilities right now.

I would drop that into a deeper trench ( I cant tell how deep that is now from the pic)
And put it into a pipe. Then fill the trench with gravel partially as a visual cue you’re “getting close” in future excavations.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Electric heat won't break the glass. You could overheat the glass using a torch (much faster). The reason glass breaks is a 'sudden' change of temp.

You can absolutely break glass w a heat gun, I've done it more times than I can count removing glazing compound from the thousands of old windows I've restored. This was my life for more years than I'd like to think about, doing restoration paint and finish work on old houses and buildings and specializing in windows.

If you are only removing paint and not compound, (what someone else is calling putty), it's easy to not break glass if you know what you're doing and have the right tools. The problem is that old windows almost always need to be re-glazed which requires removing all old compound to do it well.

The good news is that the glazing compound or putty looks fine in the close-up photo in OP, only the paint on the compound is peeling. That is easier to deal with.

Originally Posted by Gogar

NO HEAT! Tried it with a heat gun and a scraper, with unfortunate results.

Can you find a place that will dip it? Spend a hundred bucks on the dip instead of new glass and heartache.

Heat is the only realistic way to remove old finishes in most situations and it works great but requires some knowledge and skill to do it without causing damage. You also cannot dip that window in harsh chemicals w/o removing the glass first, how are you going to do that? There are times when dipping something is the right move, this isn't one of them.

Removing glazing compound that is strong w/o hating the glass to the point of cracking is nearly impossible. Weak compound is another story, normally you do not attempt to remove strong compound unless you are replacing a broken pane of glass and then, who cares if it breaks more? Removing old finishes w a heat gun is a snap but you need certain accessories to work around glass or anything else you do not wish to heat up. Propane torches are great as well for larger jobs that will be repainted, obviously no good where any type of clear or semi-transparent finish will be used.

This probably TMI but I could go on for pages on this subject. It is a dying sub-speciality within the refinishing trade that almost no one does well because smart tradesmen are not interested in restoration projects. Almost no one even knows how to correctly re-glaze windows without missing the internal line for the glass edge, which every worker w a pulse knew how to do in 1935.

Here is an example of the accessories needed for working around glass w a heat gun, the regular spreader nozzle is missing because it's on one of my guns:

[Zeke]

I have never broken a pane of glass with electric heat. I've nicked a few panes with metal tools and started a runner which, of course, required replacement.

In my painting days (started on the Queen Mary as a union painter during its restoration) I removed a lot of glass. On one Craftsman 2-story bungalow that I restored in 1976 I moved several large panes from the upper rear to the front at the porch because some of the original wavy glass had been replaced by float glass. You could see this from the street so it didn't play well. I still keep a stash of old glass on hand. It's getting harder to find.

On that job I used an acetylene torch — the kind that mixes with air, not oxygen. I used a piece of sheet metal to shield the glass from direct heat. If there is already a buried nick at the edge of the glass, you're fooked as it will run as soon as you disturb it.

"Putty" is a generalized term that everyone understands. Some suppliers call it putty.



That stuff is gray and dries hard as nails, but it's the one to use on metal sash.

IDK how long anyone here has been painting but if you count the years before I became union, I've been at it for 53 years. In one ten year stretch that's all I did — paint. Had a crew and 2 trucks. It's like riding a bike, you don't forget how even if you don't pick up a brush for months (never happened to me, I'm always painting something).

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Zeke

I have never broken a pane of glass with electric heat. I've nicked a few panes with metal tools and started a runner which, of course, required replacement.

In my painting days (started on the Queen Mary as a union painter during its restoration) I removed a lot of glass. On one Craftsman 2-story bungalow that I restored in 1976 I moved several large panes from the upper rear to the front at the porch because some of the original wavy glass had been replaced by float glass. You could see this from the street so it didn't play well. I still keep a stash of old glass on hand. It's getting harder to find.

On that job I used an acetylene torch — the kind that mixes with air, not oxygen. I used a piece of sheet metal to shield the glass from direct heat. If there is already a buried nick at the edge of the glass, you're fooked as it will run as soon as you disturb it.

"Putty" is a generalized term that everyone understands. Some suppliers call it putty.



That stuff is gray and dries hard as nails, but it's the one to use on metal sash.

IDK how long anyone here has been painting but if you count the years before I became union, I've been at it for 53 years. In one ten year stretch that's all I did — paint. Had a crew and 2 trucks. It's like riding a bike, you don't forget how even if you don't pick up a brush for months (never happened to me, I'm always painting something).

I agree, you don't forget how to paint and prep stuff for refinishing. As for using heat, it's all in knowing what you're doing. I just took this photo an hour ago at my favored tint shop, (2 blocks from my door), a guy using a MAP torch on the glass of a brand new BMW X3 to dry it.

They do this everyday. Don't try it at home.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I've got a feeling these are going to be stored for a few years, moved from place to place to get them out of the way a few dozen times, and then they'll end up in a garage sale for cheap. I already have plenty of projects and I sure as heck don't have the time or the desire to strip them down. I don't think MrsWD has time to do it either. I don't think this was a wise purchase.
Ossi, it's good advice to get an idea what her final plans for those windows are before doing anything to them. I'll tell her to think long and hard about what she ultimately wants to do with them.

I've got some 1/2 PVC conduit laying around here someplace. I'll try ripping a slot in it with my 4" grinder. If that doesn't work I'll just lay a 1x4 on top of it before I rebury it. I've got engines to build and cars to drive!

Hire a stripper!

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Hire a stripper!

Ha! That’s one job MrsWD could do herself. The girl can dance.
I’ve exposed the entire cable and after looking at it I have a new plan.
Update tomorrow.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Ha! That’s one job MrsWD could do herself. The girl can dance.
I’ve exposed the entire cable

Hold on there cowboy!! I work on a need to know basis and I don't need to know

[juanbenae]

couple things come to mind. as noted there is more lead in that paint than in your pencil sir! I would expect heating it for removal would only increase the opportunity for you to get polluted by it vap mask usage considered. additionally the layers of paint may very well what's keeping the them upright. if the paint is removed entirely they may become pick up sticks with glass between them. it's yard art, or in this case a hot house, let that sleeping dog lay and install as is


regarding the wire. you can get wall mount exterior two piece conduits for garage usage and such in stainless or a PVE type material. you run the wire through it, snap the two pieces together so no cutting or splicing of the wire is required. then set it in the trench surrounding it with as cliff suggests above an import backfill. you can use sand or pea gravel both under and over the conduit so it never sits in in water at the bottom of the trench and over it a few inches tells someone digging to look closer. the beauty of an import backfill like pea gravel it's noticeable and easily moved around to locate the utility when encounter.

this old house

[KFC911]

I learn a lot from you guys....stuff I have no clue about....

I do think using a stripper with chemicals is worthy of pics though !

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Ha! That’s one job MrsWD could do herself. The girl can dance.

Originally Posted by KC911

I learn a lot from you guys....stuff I have no clue about....

I do think using a stripper with chemicals is worthy of pics though !

One can only wonder.

[wdfifteen]

So, I got the whole wire uncovered and took a good look at the situation. There is enough wire to tuck behind the pins and under the edge of the paver retainer. It's not perfect, but it's not very likely anyone is going to be digging that close to the retainer with anything that will cut the wire.






I asked MrsWD what she ultimately wants to do with the windows. Turn out she just wants the glass.
"What are you going to do with 50 little pieces of beveled glass?"
She just smiled.

[cabmandone]

You might end up kicking yourself for that at some point if your retainer is anything like mine. I have to re plant my retainer almost every spring due to heaving over winter.