Talented contractor, but not licensed/insured

[Vipergrün]

Thanks Milt, I am concerned about medical insurance work the workers and getting sued should someone get injured, fall down the stairs, etc. Or does that not fall under the typical umbrella of "licensed and insured"? There are a lot of slimeballs in the business and it's nearly impossible to find someone good. And Angies list, etc.....give me a break. You should be glad you are out :--)

[Crowbob]

Back in the olden days when I built my garage myself I was at the stage to roof it and was not excited about doing it myself because I get dizzy standing on a silver dollar.

I come home from work and lo and behold somebody stapled their roofer’s business card to the building. Called the number and a couple days later two young guys shingled that roof in about 1/2 a day with no money up front, nothing in writing and they did a fine job.

Fast forward to this week and the roof is wore out. I had trouble finding roofers to even give me an estimate. One outfit charged $150 just for the privilege of having a looksee.

Anyway, the first thing out of every one of their mouths was that they were bonded and insured and some even emailed copies of their policies.

Nowadays, I let nobody step on my property who isn’t insured.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Vipergrün

Thanks Milt, I am concerned about medical insurance work the workers and getting sued should someone get injured, fall down the stairs, etc. Or does that not fall under the typical umbrella of "licensed and insured"? There are a lot of slimeballs in the business and it's nearly impossible to find someone good. And Angies list, etc.....give me a break. You should be glad you are out :--)

Licensed and Insured can mean lic + liability. As a sole owner and a one man company I didn't carry WC ins. That's because in CA the owner can't insure himself for WC unless incorporated and on salary. Which is not a bad way to go, but as I said, it costs lots of money in CA to carry WC. Many trades are above 15% for WC meaning for a $200/day worker I send in 30 (or more) bucks every day. It adds up fast.

As a lic contractor you could have hired me without that overhead but the question remains, what if I got hurt. Supposedly it was always on me. But if something about your house caused the injury then what. Actually IDK because it never came up and clients didn't ask ahead of time just like they didn't ask about the lic or the liability, if you want to know the truth.

I'll say it one more time in case someone didn't read all of this, a contractor with all the proper licensing, liability including vehicles, and WC PLUS local business licenses, has to come in the door with a minimum to make any money. With all that going on, I wouldn't touch a job for less than 10 grand that I thought I could do in 2-3 weeks by myself depending on the cost of materials.

On the flip side, a landlord friend of mine just finished a complete reno on a 2 bedroom apt with easy access (a big factor) including new appliances, counters, new kit and bath floors, new windows, complete bath and the whole place painted for 15K. He had to buy the appliances and the carpet over the 15K and that's it. One middle aged dude did the entire job except laying the carpet. I can assure you the guy had nothing AFA overhead. His truck didn't even have reverse gear. But it turned out good enough.

Physically I couldn't have done that — but maybe 10 years ago. Besides the point.

[LWJ]

I wrote before I thought.

Considering I insure contractors all day long, this may be important.

1) Your guy needs workers comp. You are correct.
2) Your guy only needs liability insurance if you need the ability to collect on it. Your call...

I am with Milt on the licensing. Friends help friends all the time. It is within the scope of home ownership.

When on the job injuries happen or others are injured or a long term leak? You need to be the judge. You don't need insurance until you do. Then it can be too late.

(Milt, I see claims paid almost every day. Currently working on a fatality. Not pretty)

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by Vipergrün

I think I know ya'lls response, but will toss it out there anyway.

Getting ready to do a small bathroom remodel. Holy cow it's expensive, but I work from home and don't have the luxury of time to do it myself, which I normally would. This a 5x8 bath, basically a rip and replace. Re-bath wants 17-20K WTF? For middle of the road materials, including 2 new doors, I'm in for ~3K. Other estimates for labor have been between 8-13K. Staggering.

I've been referred a super nice, trustworthy and hardworking guy who does really good work, and have seen a couple examples of his work. He just got his green card, is not licensed or insured, but has been doing this for a while.

For labor, he comes in at 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of others, but am I looking at too much risk in the event of an injury or code issue?

Next call is to AAA, which carries my condo insurance, to see what they have to say.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
-Brad

Don’t do it.
Especially if you already *know* he isn’t licensed AND insured.
Really really do not do it.

[look 171]

Brad, you should be Ok with this guy if you like him but there are risks like many mentioned about. Remember this, most lic contractors were once unlicensed until they can stand on their own feet. I was one of them during my early college years. Within a couple of years, I decided to get my lic and all the other stuff that come with the responsibility of running a business.

[A930Rocket]

Check with your insurance agent. Maybe there’s a work around with you getting WC, etc. I don’t recall it being that much when I built my house.

In SC, if you hire a contractor and then find out he’s not licensed, you don’t have to pay him.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

Check with your insurance agent. Maybe there’s a work around with you getting WC, etc. I don’t recall it being that much when I built my house.

In SC, if you hire a contractor and then find out he’s not licensed, you don’t have to pay him.

Supposedly that's the case in CA too. IDK if I'd want to test it.

[911 Rod]

It's just a bathroom. I'd be more worried about references and experience.
Roof. No way.
I just went through both.

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

run forest run

So he's a good guy, and due to no fault of his own or yours, he falls while working on your property and and gets hurt badly.
He can't work for a while, he can't support his Familia.
He is scared.
Then a non-scrupulous lawyer-type catches up to the ambulance and says "hey, I know how to solve all your problems".
Next thing ya know he get awarded a couple mil, well above what you are insured for, so you looose everything including your condo. But ya still gotta pay back the loan!

He must have his own insurance or he does not pick up a tool on your property.

Yep - run away: fast.