8000 years ago when I subscribed to Stereo Review.......


I remember a test that dozens of Audio "golden" ears" tested, "what sounds better Tubes or Transistors?


dozens of ears in a test room, Had a simple toggle switch in front of them in a box.

Tube <> Transistor

no pre-amp or eq. Straight from source to Amp.

The spent several days testing, agonizing overdifferent music types and volumes.


left right left right they'd throw the switch.


Finally THEY decided that the Left position was much warmer, smoother, not as harsh. Tonal. Definitely better


clap clap clap The test organizers smiled.


The Golden Ears opened the box with toggle switch...............


only to find a lump of clay, and no wires hooked up to the switch at all.



he heh heh.

Not only out from the corners, but out from the walls. That is unless they are stated as being a "bookshelf" or "wall mounted" speaker that relies on a nearby wall for bass reinforcement.

I caution everyone that room set-up (room acoustics) is at least half the equation.

Be wary of examples of full range floor standing speakers set against a wall. Flat sound with no stage depth, no air and boomy bass is typically the result, or like every Polk I've ever heard. ;)

Room Acoustics
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/images/gr.../room-omni.jpg

Room acoustics, the basis for HiFi audio
https://blog.keepcoding.ch/?p=715
https://blog.keepcoding.ch/wp-conten.../03/stereo.jpg
Note, Panel speakers typically like double the off the wall spacing of conventional speakers - they take up more room in the end.

I would say room acoustics is at least 75% of the equation. You can buy software that will help you model the acoustics of your room, which gives you a good starting point for how to arrange speakers, furniture and other objects. Any room that does not have as it’s ultimate goal of the proper reproduction of sound is not going to be a very good listening room. 99% of the rooms that I know of are used for other purposes and music reproduction is an afterthought. That percentage probably rises to 100% if there is a wife in the discussion.

This is pretty much the bible on this sort of thing.
https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reproduction-Psychoacoustics-Loudspeakers-Engineering/dp/113892136X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=sound+reproduction&qid=1557327 758&s=gateway&sr=8-1

Also REW analysis software is free and you can do quite a detailed analysis with an inexpensive calibrated Mic.

It is however possible to get very good sound in rooms that have some compromises for usability and it doesn't require a phd in acoustics. However putting your stereo on a convenient wall without much thought wont get you there either. 80/20 guideline applies here.

Good post.

Yea, I would not try to hold a background music listening room or typical living room to the same standards of a dedicated listening room.

That's why I asked so many questions up front.

Questions went unanswered.

Going to have to assume this is a low mental effort endeavor, and that's a shame with such a capable receiver.

Great information about the software and all, but his unit has all this built-in for the most part.

The link the original poster provided.

https://www.avrev.com/home-theater-av-receivers/av-receivers/b-k-avr307-receiver.html
Note, all this technology is not intend to fix poor placement or practices, it is intended to get that last 10% out of your room once you have done everything else right. It can make up for a lot of imperfections but not a miracle worker.

Here's the shop basic layout. Has huge problems in terms of speaker placement. I spend 90% of my time at the left workstation (5x6 table) which means I only hear the left speaker. The more I think about it, I could make shelves for speakers on the walls above the tumbler and to the right of the second workstation. Each station as a huge window in front, makes working at each nice.

Those Polk SDAs I posted earlier would probably fit easily on a wall.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1557363682.jpg

Seems like Polk SDAs would be wasted here. Their sound stage is amazing... assuming you're right between the two speakers.

^^^^ Ya really don't have to be between them actually....but I tend to agree in this situation. All of my Polks are anything but bass heavy (me no likey either)....though they span 20-20k. Passive radiators ;)....and they reproduce a "live concert" like no others I've EVER heard....just 2-ch + gain :)

I love these speaker threads as it seems that speaker opinions are almost purely subjective. Two people can listen to the same speakers at the same time and come away with different opinions. And that's fine.

I cycled through a number of pairs of speakers back in the '80s and '90s and even bought a set of kg4s under the assumption that I would love them only find out that they weren't as nice as I expected. My Dad was a huge Klipsch fan and when he bought some kg3.2s (?) to replace some Advents he bought new in the '70s, he gave me the old Advents. The Advents lived in my closet as I cycled through the Boston Acoustics/Klipschs/etc. until one day I pulled them out and hooked them up. Sounded not too good. Woofer foam was gone. :) I re-foamed them and was amazed at how good they sounded. Crisp highs and tight, but deep bass.

I still have the Advents. :)

^^^ It's ALL personal taste...Advents, Cerwin-Vegas, even some JBLs....those were the bass thumpers ;)

Heard lots of Advents back in college....

Agree Mike. I've had vintage Advents that I refoamed, posted about them here years ago. Ultimately I got tired of them, they were too warm for my taste. Have a set of B&Ws connected to my Hafler/Rotel/Rotel system now which I like more because they are clean and bright. I typically like bright. Just my ear. I'm listening to the SDAs next week connected to a Sansui. I'm intrigued by the DCM Time Windows so if I don't like the SDAs, I'll look for those.

Bill, I haven't see Ian post in ages. I always enjoyed his posts, he was a really nice guy, a true audio expert.

I honestly don't think you will experience what I do from those....my smallest Polks are awesome....but a bit more....ooomp?....who knows? When ya find what ya like...

Quit ;)

He wasn't the only HEAVYweight on this board either ;)....I am not one...but I gots ears :).

Ian worked for Cambridge Audio or their major distributor. Too bad he's not on any more.


I think the best overall bet would be a wall mount, maybe with one over the tumbler. A multi-speaker setup might be best but would cost more...

Some co.s make speakers designed just for wall mounting...
Roy Allison made a speaker for corner mounting but I'm sure it's too old to have any units around anymore.

IF on the wall, be sure to avoid a rear firing port

You don't want or need expensive speakers for that application, You're just looking for background music. Get some small wall mounts that are readily available, Modern receivers often have 7 channels and multiple zones, For most casual listing I just use either Bose noise canceling headphones or a 7 channel 2 zone internet receiver with some small Polks.

Hey Bill, I understand why you would think that but many times I have the volume up to 7 (old Yamaha) for extended periods of time.

The cool thing about this B&K is that presets include a ton of settings. Was reading last night, if I'm sanding with pneumatics, I can hit 3 on the remote to tune in 90.9 FM at volume level 15. When I stop and go to sanding by hand, I can hit 4 and it will tune to 90.0 but reduce the volume to -8. A small example but it's amazing the level of detail this receiver can dial in. 40 presets available.

Agreed for that shop setup it doesnt really matter too much. Buy whatever you like/ looks cool/ plays decently loud

If you spend 90% of your time at one table doing a near field setup for that table would give the best fidelity for the bulk of your time. Basically 2 small speakers aimed at your ears in back corners of the table or mounted to either side of the window if it allows. At least you will get some sense of stereo

I know you said you want "vintage" speakers, but if it were up to me, I'd run it into an Allen and Heath mini mixer (hey, it's sort of vintage in that you are only talking about circa 2004 or so?), and then for speakers, I would use either two or four QSC K-8 8" amplified loudspeakers.

Trust me, if you do this you will thank me.