Build me an engine...

[javadog]

Five grand won’t buy you crap anymore and the OP doesn’t live anywhere near Tyson, or anyone like him.

[jwasbury]

$5k is a decent machine shop budget for a full rebuild, including twin plug modification. I DIY’d my 930 engine build, and yes there was a bunch of “while you’re in there” stuff, but the total cost of parts and machine shop labor was almost $20k. Pistons and cylinders ~$4k alone. Had I not done twin plug, and not done case machining for 100mm pistons, I could have shaved 4-5k from the total cost.

Part of the disparity in cost is because “rebuild” can be anything from a top end reseal/re-ring, to crank out full monty.

The parts are very expensive. Try pricing out just bearings and gasket sets to do a full rebuild and you’ll be over 1k already.

[pwd72s]

Only the one paying the tab can decide if it's worth it.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by javadog

Five grand won’t buy you crap anymore and the OP doesn’t live anywhere near Tyson, or anyone like him.

For sure, it’s a couple decades later and the cars are 4x as much as well. The funny thing is that I was making a lot of money in those days and wasn’t really concerned w costs. I was just all-in on the process of doing a great job.

[1990C4S]

Befire you dial up the SC drive some other P-cars.

G50 3.2, 964, and a 996.

You may find a 'faster' car you like for less money.

I am not a fan of adding a lot of power to anything with a 915.

And I'm not a fan of 'upgrades' that make a small difference.

[gwood]

Anyone have any experience with the Ruf 3.2 SC kit? I see they still sell them.

[fred cook]

A few years ago, I needed to rebuild the engine in my 1980 SC due to broken head studs and some other issues. After a lot of reading and picking brains, I finally decided to do a 3.3SS with Carrera twin plug heads, 964 cams and Electromotive XDi ignition. I replaced the air box with an early, large port box and basically replumbed it like a 73.5. The Mahle pistons were supposed to be 10.1:1 compression but wound up being about 10.8:1 due to previous machining on the heads. The end result is an engine that starts easily, runs well on pump premium and revs like crazy. Someday I might pull the CIS off and replace it with a set of PMOs but I wanted to see what the CIS would do on a built engine. By shopping around and getting good pricing on most of the parts I wound up with about $10-$12K in this engine. I performed all the labor so that probably saved around $10K or so. It can be done!

[Geronimo]

I like the idea of the Fred. I plan to lurk and learn and prep so that I can do the work myself. I like the idea of slowly carefully building my own engine. And who knows maybe in a few years I’ll up the budget a bit.

[Zeke]

I posted something like this on your other thread:

I was talking about camshaft grinds. You do know that there are spreadsheets and programs that take in consideration of the other parameters, right? It's real easy to buy a certain CR when you get your P and C's. And you can put all kinds of induction on it. You can run an infinite number of ignition curves. But the one thing you can't change (other than CR) is the cam profile. That's what makes it all happen. And the cam can be designed not only for how the rest of the motor is set up, but for how you want to drive. Fast car on the street? Don't need a high rev long overlap duration. You need something that the tranny likes in all the gears but 5th. You aren't going to hit the rev limiter in 5th. Ever. The jump in RPM drop is pretty significant it your trans hasn't been re-geared to short ratios between the meat gears. That cam needs to build some torque.

[Geronimo]

Yea, this thread was more about fishing out broader engine build options. Like 3.2ss vs 3.3ss and which heads do people like or which heads and displacement might work best with my 46mm pmo’s I know the cam is the cherry on top of a well balanced selection of bits.

This was more about a broader engine build theories I guess.

[speeder]

Having 46mm PMOs on a stock SC motor w stock cams=a pig. You need someone who can get it dialed-in properly in the first place before evaluating its performance.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by speeder

Having 46mm PMOs on a stock SC motor w stock cams=a pig. You need someone who can get it dialed-in properly in the first place before evaluating its performance.

For sure on that. If the SC motor is stock, it shouldn't have carbs on it at all. That's why I suggested a turbo (it would be a mild boost) on a CIS. Pistons and cam overlap are designed specifically for CIS.

I didn't used to think much of CIS especially after blowing the air box off the 2.7 we had "back then." That would be way before Pelican. However, after an Andial rebuild the thing was reasonably quick. They made sure the CIS was in perfect tune.

[speeder]

CIS in proper fettle is a fine fuel delivery system. A lot better than carbs in most ways.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by Geronimo

Yea, this thread was more about fishing out broader engine build options. Like 3.2ss vs 3.3ss and which heads do people like or which heads and displacement might work best with my 46mm pmo’s I know the cam is the cherry on top of a well balanced selection of bits.

This was more about a broader engine build theories I guess.

There isn't a single build theory presented in this thread, or anywhere, that will give you anything close to the outright, "Hoooollllyyyy shiiiittttt" acceleration from your 3.2 that turbocharging would (I know you already know this, but are still resisting the turbo powahhhhh, for some strange reason . . . do you actually like Fred Flintstone motoring, deep down?!?! ).

[Geronimo]

Rawknees, you are the devil. I almost bought a 3.2 intake to put aside for a turbo build, then the trans issue arose.... so I had to back out of that deal. My overall plan was to sell the 915 at some point and pick up a 930 trans, cost is high but the durability is nice.

I am still not against turboing the car... but every time I step my lil foot into the HP waters I just think to myself "just get a Vette you IDIOT".

I think a turbo on my 3L would be a riot, but can't see the 915 lasting very long with that. Maybe I'll get the trans sorted and give the turbo another thought... I know a lot of 3/3.2 people are running them with great success and POWERS.

[javadog]

A 930 gearbox would be an absolute disaster in your SC.

You don’t have twisty roads where you are, acceleration seems to be important to you, getting a Corvette is not a bad idea.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by javadog

A 930 gearbox would be an absolute disaster in your SC.

You don’t have twisty roads where you are, acceleration seems to be important to you, getting a Corvette is not a bad idea.

This and this.

I do NOT mean this as a put-down but you are not a Porsche guy. Porsches are great cars, (much better than Corvettes, IMO), but brute acceleration was never their forte. Without canyons or a race track/road course nearby, I honestly do not see the appeal of driving a 911 unless you just love the looks/sound/smell of them so much that going from traffic light to traffic light is exciting to you.

When I sold them years ago at the dealership, every once in a while we'd get a guy or woman who really was a Corvette person. They wanted V-8 grunt off the line, not a refined German sports car. That did not make them bad people or inferior to Porsche people, just different strokes.

Most real Porsche enthusiasts are fanatical about the cars, way beyond reason when you get out the calculator and compare dollars to HP. This was especially true back in the 356 days, when other car nuts just absolutely did not "get" Porsche guys. The cars made zero sense to them. Of course now, the new Porsches are fast and performance is awesome but the $$/HP still doesn't add up unless you just have to have a Porsche.

Porsche enthusiasts were usually obsessed w the cars, new 911 customers often knew more about the cars than we did at the dealer and it was a matter of just letting them stew in the showroom w their chin in their fist for long periods of time, doing their own calculating and decision making process. Your general lack of Porsche knowledge and curiosity, (wanting to install a 930 trans or putting PMO 46s on a stock SC motor), suggests that you are not a Porsche guy.

Back in the early '80s, when RUF was just making performance parts and modifying Porsches for customers, one of their most popular upgrades was putting a fortified 915 in 930 turbo cars so that they had 5-speeds. I've never seen anyone try to put a 930 trans in an SC, that's just lack of knowledge or interest in learning. And the 915 is a fantastic transmission up to its power limits. The problem is the owner or owners of your car, not the transmission.

Have you tried the 911 tech board here? It's 10x the size of OT and just loaded w specific knowledge, (and some kooks as well, to be fair), it's the place to learn about Porsches.

[Geronimo]

When someone says "I'm telling the truth", or "I do NOT mean this as a put-down" the opposite is usually true.

I did not decide to put 46mm PMO's on a stock car... they cam with the car I bought... I suggested the idea of a 930 trans on a turbo application, as it HAS been done (IE Derek Whitacare in LA.) and I thought it might be an idea worth exploring.... we can not all be born with the inherent Porsche knowledge that you have, for some it's a curve.

As I have tried to make clear this was an exploration post meant to flush out the learnings of others for my benefit so that I can learn. Apparently you require that I come to the table having learned everything before I can join your "Porsche guy" club.

I am not the first person to drive a car that they like very much and say, "man that was cool, but more would be better". Pretty sure Porsche did this 5 minutes before inventing the Turbo Carrera.

I am simply trying to get points of view on how people might approach that question, and rather than get specific in the tech section I thought OT might offer some more general approaches that I could then diver deeper on.

I will agree that I am not a Porsche guy, perhaps an automotive guy would fit better as I find interest in many makes and models of cars.

[javadog]

In 1986, I was driving a 1983 911SC that I bought new and had modified to the extent that I could with the usual bolt-on goodies for improving the power. I had made the car quicker, but I wanted more. I did the math and ended up buying a new 930 and selling the 911SC.

Eventually, I even modified the damn 930.

The correct solution is always to buy a faster car. Been there, done that, more times than I care to count. Take my word for it, or learn the hard way.

[Geronimo]

Yea, that's why I tend to think that you need a few cars depending on the flavor of the day.

I think that a well sorted 3L with some hot cams and ITB in a 2200lb car could be very fun. For those power days a nice Cobra kit would fit better.... kinda my longer term plan I think.