Okay audio guys....

[Rickysa]

I am only to happy to report my own ignorance about things in order to learn..to wit, I'm not sure how to get the best sound out of my audio toys. A few years ago, I was bitten by the bug to finally get some nice (older) equipment. Spent some time over at Audiogon reading up on various manufacturers and decided on a McIntosh MC2500 amp, C34V pre-amp, and K-horn speakers.

I have the owners manuals for all, but never really liked the sound...sounded "muddy (?)". I am no audiophile, just looking for clean sound. I don't even know what half of these buttons do:




How does one go about tweaking the "knobs" to get the sound "right"?

[Ayles]

I do not use any tone controls (all set to neutral) in my analog system. Are you sure you have a clean stylus and are your capacitance settings adjusted to match your cartridge?

[KFC911]

Yer in good hands...neutral

[Rickysa]

Are you sure you have a clean stylus and are your capacitance settings adjusted to match your cartridge

kinds reads like: Είστε βέβαιοι ότι έχετε καθαρή γραφίδα και ότι οι ρυθμίσεις χωρητικότητας προσαρμόζονται ώστε να ταιριάζουν με την κασέτα σας to me

I do have a turntable (new), but also digital converters for iPad, cds, etc. Sounds the same with each...not sure how to check/change the capacitance settings (?)

[Cajundaddy]

Really tough to diagnose from here but if that rig sounds muddy it's broken. Personal preference is to set unity gain, tone controls flat (12 o'clock), compander off, and turn it up. Klipsch are very placement sensitive so getting them in the right spot makes a huge difference. Room acoustics are also about 60% of the challenge to fine audio.

[stevej37]

Sounds great on my LG phone with one 1.5 inch speaker!

[Ayles]

Capacitance settings only apply to your Turntable and cartridge. There needs to be a match between the output voltage of your cartridge and your preamp. You may or may not have these settings available on your equipment. I have noticed that the sound of my system will degrade pretty quickly as the stylus collects dust/dirt. I'd start there for sure.

Additionally, when using modern sources with vintage equipment you may have output voltage issues that might require a standalone DAC. This link will cover some of that:
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/hooking-up-digital-to-vintage.507705/

[Rickysa]

Really tough to diagnose from here but if that rig sounds muddy it's broken

That was a concern, but all the equipment was purchased from/restored by this guy McIntosh Home Audio For Sale, McIntosh Labs Used Audio Equipment

based on research from this guy Roger Russell, McIntosh Lab., Scripto and Norma Pencils and leads

Klipsch's are in the corners, lows are fine...it's the upper range that seems to be lacking. I'll check all the settings when I get home this evening.

[Rickysa]

standalone DAC

Yep, got one of those.

[Ayles]

How are the crossovers in the K horns (envious by the way )?

[RWebb]

yes, set everything to neutral (middle)

check if it happens on all inputs

Mac is highly regarded but the older ones used auto-formers (transformers) - not sure re yours but IIRC they are fairly new, so it is likely to be a setting

try to substitute in a different amp

[Rickysa]

How are the crossovers in the K horns (envious by the way )?

They should be fine, as the speakers were bought new just a few years ago (?)

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by Rickysa

I have the owners manuals for all, but never really liked the sound...sounded "muddy (?)". I am no audiophile, just looking for clean sound.

Ah, I see you have discovered that "signature" McIntosh sound.
Some people refer to it as "warm" but I think many just say that because they don't want to admit that the high-$$ amp/pre they just purchased doesn't really sound all that great. YMMV of course...

Reminds me of the adage that fishing lures are designed to attract fisherman, not fish...And those blue lights can be quite a-lure-ing.

[aschen]

Brand new K-horns shouldent sound muddy. I assumed they were 20-40 years old like most of them you come across. It is very hard to make a diagnosis with the available data. Is it possible the speakers are hooked up out of phase (+/- inverted on one). This should really only effect the lows though.

I think you should rule out the vintage mac gear as possible causing the issue. Do you have any modern integrated amps or receivers around you can swap in to test? If not can you borrow one? Otherwise anything cheap will do. A bottom of the line best buy receiver should be able to drive them with ease. It is worth spending 100$ or so if this is your only option to make sure the Mac gear is not the issue> something like this maybe: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RS202/Yamaha-R-S202.html

Hook it up and if the 150 integrated amp sounds substantially better than the vintage mac gear you will know your problem lies within. You will get a spare amp for garage duty or gifting in the process

I would also convince my self all the drivers are working correctly. You should be able to tell by sticking your ear up to each of the mid and tweeter horns. Can use a multimeter to check the voice coil impedance if there is a doubt (need to disconnect from crossovers).

Easiest and most useful thing to do would be to find an audio enthusiast in the area to poke around a bit though.

[Rickysa]

Easiest and most useful thing to do would be to find an audio enthusiast in the area to poke around a bit though.

I would so like to do this, but so far no luck...

Any of you good souls want to come to Pinehurst and play a round of golf? Me, I don't know which end of the club to hold, but I understand the courses are pretty well known

Spend a week at the beach, and we can go tuna fishing

[Bill Verburg]

Good and properly functioning electronics should not color the sound in any way except when tune controls are used.

Speakers will almost universally color sound, good ones are the ones that color the way you like it.

[astrochex]

It sounds OK from the clip, but what leads you to believe you’re lacking upper range? Have you listened to that exact record on another system?

[Rickysa]

It sounds OK from the clip

Sorry for the confusion, but that is just a vid I found w/ the same pre-amp and similar amp. I'm in the process of checking everything and hooking up a diffferent amp to see what changes.

wiring is good.

[908/930]

So, how big is the room? and how are the speakers positioned?

I was considering a pair of corner horns but it seems like the preferred setup is on the corners of the long wall.

My thinking is that the room is too square and or too small for them and the lower frequency are reflecting. Does this happen at low volume and gets more noticeable when you turn it up?

Can you post a pic of how the crossover is wired, is there a chance that the upper horn is on the wrong terminal?

[Rickysa]

is there a chance that the upper horn is on the wrong terminal

all of that was pre-wired, but I double checked it just the same...all good

So, how big is the room? and how are the speakers positioned?

In the corners, 15x18 pool table room, hardwoods.