Runners, 1 cadence, target or what feels right 2 improve speed

[masraum]

I generally go with what feels right. I have seen some places/people that say "you should be shooting for 190" or whatever. I tried it just out of curiosity, it's faster than my usual unless I'm really hauling butt (which I can only do in short bursts). I don't plan to change to that "just because", but I'm curious what the brain trust thinks on the subject.

Also, is there anything specific (exercises, drills, etc...) that you guys recommend to improve pace/speed.

I want to increase my pace, so I've started doing some intervals run fast then slow, repeat...

[Tobra]

Interval training is good, the old go hard on the straight, jog around the corner one. Running hills is always good. You would think that as flat as Sacramento is, you would not have to worry about running hills. Track coach found the only damn hill around he could make the cross country team run back from. Takes you out there, hows you the hill, tells you how many times to run up and down, recover a about 10 minutes, then about a dozen miles back to the school. I guess at least the hill was at the beginning.

I knew a guy who did the harness and parachute thing. I was surprised how much it improved his speed.

Cross training can help too, I know guys that got to be faster running after doing work on the bike.

[wdfifteen]

I used a heart rate monitor and set my speed based on the heart rate zone method.

https://www.healthline.com/health/running-heart-rate

What you'll find is that as you train and your body gets more efficient you have to run faster to keep your heart rate up. So you automatically run faster over time.

[KFC911]

I haven't ran in decades....bad knees, ankles, lazy as hell . I used to LOVE to run on the beach when I lived in FL....with or without shoes....packed sand (with), soft sand barefoot...

I don't know what the hell ya do in Houston except move

Yer threads make me tired Steve

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Interval training is good, the old go hard on the straight, jog around the corner one. Running hills is always good. You would think that as flat as Sacramento is, you would not have to worry about running hills. Track coach found the only damn hill around he could make the cross country team run back from. Takes you out there, hows you the hill, tells you how many times to run up and down, recover a about 10 minutes, then about a dozen miles back to the school. I guess at least the hill was at the beginning.

I knew a guy who did the harness and parachute thing. I was surprised how much it improved his speed.

Cross training can help too, I know guys that got to be faster running after doing work on the bike.

Not a lot of hills around here for me to run on, and I often do my running on a treadmill that does allow you to increase the angle, so I'll try that. Wow, parachute into the wind, screw that!

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I used a heart rate monitor and set my speed based on the heart rate zone method.

https://www.healthline.com/health/running-heart-rate

What you'll find is that as you train and your body gets more efficient you have to run faster to keep your heart rate up. So you automatically run faster over time.

Yeah, I've got an HRM, and sort of do that. I increase the intensity and my HR goes up, and then the rest periods are to enable my HR to drop back down before I bump the intensity up again.

Originally Posted by KC911

I haven't ran in decades....bad knees, ankles, lazy as hell . I used to LOVE to run on the beach when I lived in FL....with or without shoes....packed sand (with), soft sand barefoot...

I don't know what the hell ya do in Houston except move

Yer threads make me tired Steve

Hahahah. Yeah, we are also doing some cross training, both with the bike and with other types of exercise. Yeah, running on the beach does increase the effort required a lot.


Thanks all

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by masraum

Yeah, I've got an HRM, and sort of do that. I increase the intensity and my HR goes up, and then the rest periods are to enable my HR to drop back down before I bump the intensity up again.

What are your target heart rates?

[Rick Lee]

I only run on an elliptical at the gym these days. But I set incline and resistance at 10 and try to average a nine minute mile. So I need to do at least .11 miles for every minute. Once I'm way ahead of that, I can ignore the clock until I hit five miles or 45 minutes.

[Danimal16]

Intervals and core body, do your sit ups, crunches and planks.

Distance runner legs must be forced to develop quick twitch capabilities. The only way to do that is to increase turn over and that has to do with intervals be they on an elliptical, track, flat land or hills. If you want to be competitive at the local 10 k, add the body core to take the pain.

[PorscheGAL]

When I was a teen (some time ago), I trained with a guy who coached a couple Olympic Athletes. We ran 1-2 mile warm-up, stretched, ran sprints and then cool down of 1 mile. Sprints were either 100m or 200m depending on the day. Each day we focused either 100 or 200. Sprint it out, walk the rest of the track loop and repeat. Each sprint needed to be faster than the next. Did this 2hours, 3 days a week for 3 months and went from a 6:45 mile to 5:30 mile.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

What are your target heart rates?

If I remember correctly, one of my apps had me run at low intensity for a few mins, then med intensity for a few mins and then high intensity for a few mins and calculated my max and various zones.

A couple of apps have my max in the 185-190 range, although I don't generally peak over about 175 ±3 during any workout.

If I'm doing intervals, I would probably shoot for 155-165 for the intense periods and 140-145 for the rest periods, and then I'll often do a really intense really short bit at the end where I get up in the 170-175 range.

Originally Posted by Danimal16

Intervals and core body, do your sit ups, crunches and planks.

Distance runner legs must be forced to develop quick twitch capabilities. The only way to do that is to increase turn over and that has to do with intervals be they on an elliptical, track, flat land or hills. If you want to be competitive at the local 10 k, add the body core to take the pain.

No, I don't have any desire to be competitive. I just want to be faster than I am. Last fall I ran a 10k in 57 mins, so a bit less than a 9.5 min mile. I'd like to shoot for an easy 8.5 min mile and after that I'll probably shoot for an 8 min mile (sustainable for at least 5-6 miles) and after that, depending on how I'm doing, I may keep whittling away at it. I'd also like to be able to get a 1 mile time down to quite a bit faster. But I don't care what any one else is doing.

Originally Posted by PorscheGAL

When I was a teen (some time ago), I trained with a guy who coached a couple Olympic Athletes. We ran 1-2 mile warm-up, stretched, ran sprints and then cool down of 1 mile. Sprints were either 100m or 200m depending on the day. Each day we focused either 100 or 200. Sprint it out, walk the rest of the track loop and repeat. Each sprint needed to be faster than the next. Did this 2hours, 3 days a week for 3 months and went from a 6:45 mile to 5:30 mile.

Nice! Thanks for the tips. I'll keep working on it, and may try some of the intervals you mention above.

[Brian 162]

I started jogging 1.5 yrs. ago. At the beginning I couldn't jog 100 ft. Now I jog 10 k 3 days a week. I started using a Fitbit last year. My average rate is 155bpm. It may spike 160-170.
My rate should be 161 bpm (220 minus my age 59).

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Brian 162

I started jogging 1.5 yrs. ago. At the beginning I couldn't jog 100 ft. Now I jog 10 k 3 days a week. I started using a Fitbit last year. My average rate is 155bpm. It may spike 160-170.
My rate should be 161 bpm (220 minus my age 59).

Sounds like you're talking about your heart rate. Your formula looks like it's about right for what I observe.

[Brian 162]

Originally Posted by masraum

Sounds like you're talking about your heart rate. Your formula looks like it's about right for what I observe.

Thanks
Yes I was talking about my heart rate. I try to keep a pace so I'm in the 160 range. The problem is I can't read the Fitbit while jogging because the display isn't bright enough.
I have to see my heart rate when I get home and sync the Fitbit with my phone.

[Tobra]

Plenty of tall buildings in Houston, do stairs., you will be able to read the fitbit too. Seems like that doodad ought to have a way to be audible in a bluetooth earphone.

I like the elliptical trainers, easy on the knees. Dogs need walked though, big enough I bet either one could pull me in a cart

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Brian 162

I started jogging 1.5 yrs. ago. At the beginning I couldn't jog 100 ft. Now I jog 10 k 3 days a week. I started using a Fitbit last year. My average rate is 155bpm. It may spike 160-170.
My rate should be 161 bpm (220 minus my age 59).

Sounds almost exactly like me. When I started I couldn't run at 155 for 1/4 mile. When I got fit enough to actually start counting miles I was doing 15 minute miles. By the time I was ready for a race I was running 9 minute miles and my heart rate was still 155.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Plenty of tall buildings in Houston, do stairs...

My last few years in the corporate rodeo...twice a day I'd walk "the stairs" one complete lap up & down... 17 floors. More productive than posting on PPOT and a decent workout....just glad I didn't work in NYC

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Plenty of tall buildings in Houston, do stairs., you will be able to read the fitbit too. Seems like that doodad ought to have a way to be audible in a bluetooth earphone.

I like the elliptical trainers, easy on the knees. Dogs need walked though, big enough I bet either one could pull me in a cart

Ellipticals are OK, and I've done them a bit over the years, but the stride on them is so short. I prefer a treadmill. We walk the dogs every day, but that doesn't really do much for us.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Sounds almost exactly like me. When I started I couldn't run at 155 for 1/4 mile. When I got fit enough to actually start counting miles I was doing 15 minute miles. By the time I was ready for a race I was running 9 minute miles and my heart rate was still 155.

Very nice.

Originally Posted by KC911

My last few years in the corporate rodeo...twice a day I'd walk "the stairs" one complete lap up & down... 17 floors. More productive than posting on PPOT and a decent workout....just glad I didn't work in NYC

Yeah, I have been taking the stairs in my building for a while. 1-->12 in the morning, then at some point during the day, I go from 12-->1-->12, sometimes 12-->17-->1-->12. Unfortunately, the stairs go to the parking garage, so they are not air conditioned. They are about to get too hot. I don't want to sit at my desk in a full on sweat which is what would happen.

Several years ago, I worked in another building. We had a guy that was trying to lose weight that started doing the stairs, so several of us started doing them with him. We started out just a couple of times a day and gradually increased the frequency. They culminated with all of us talking sheisse until we all ended up running from 1 to 34 (roof level). We stopped for a bit. The funny part was going back down. It was a lot tougher than you'd expect.

I always do stairs 2 at a time.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by PorscheGAL

When I was a teen (some time ago), I trained with a guy who coached a couple Olympic Athletes. We ran 1-2 mile warm-up, stretched, ran sprints and then cool down of 1 mile. Sprints were either 100m or 200m depending on the day. Each day we focused either 100 or 200. Sprint it out, walk the rest of the track loop and repeat. Each sprint needed to be faster than the next. Did this 2hours, 3 days a week for 3 months and went from a 6:45 mile to 5:30 mile.

I decided to try something a little different tonight.

Previous intervals have been

5 mins at 6.5 mph - warm up
2 mins at 8.5 mph
3 mins at 5.5 mph
then repeat the 2min-3min portions for 30 mins.

This saw my heart going from 165-170 --> 135-145, repeat

This time, I did the same warm up, but then
1.5 mins at 10mph
3.5 mins at 4mph (walking)
The last 30 secs of the 30 mins, I did at 12mph.

That saw my heart going from 168-173 --> 120-127, repeat.

A little more intense in the fast section and less intense in the slow section so I could recover enough to repeat the fast section.

[PorscheGAL]

Good on you. Intervals in any form should help speed you up. Do you have a specific timed goal in mind?

I do want to point out: Heart rate guidelines are estimates that can sometimes be way off depending on fitness levels.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by PorscheGAL

Good on you. Intervals in any form should help speed you up. Do you have a specific timed goal in mind?

The last time I did a 10k in Sep in Seattle, I managed about a 9:19/mile avg pace. I guess my next goal would be 8:30/mile, but when I hit that, depending on how I feel, I'll shoot for 8, and then 7:45 and so on. I'll keep whittling away at it until I feel like I'm done or it would take too much effort to continue to improve. When I was a kid, I could do a mile in <6 mins.

I do want to point out: Heart rate guidelines are estimates that can sometimes be way off depending on fitness levels.

Right, that's why I mostly go on feel. Right now, when I get up around 175bpm, I feel like that's a good place to stop pushing. I usually keep it under 170 with the occasional blip into the 170s.