Atomic Age Declassified on Smith TV

[rattlsnak]

Anybody watching that show on Smithsonian Channel? They talk about tons of things that are now declassified and Wow.. just Wow!

[IROC]

I'd like to watch this. I would probably learn a lot about where I work now (Oak Ridge National Laboratory). I drive past the Graphite Reactor every day.

[sammyg2]

Yep, saw it. twice. I saw a few places in the show that I've actually been to.

I haven't watched a sitcom in decades, but don't miss many edumacational documentaries.
I love stuff like this, and some of the Apollo stuff lately too. Cept for that stupidass conspiracy theory tin foil hat Apollo show. Bah.


Evidently there are a whole bunch of classified broken arrows that we still don't know about. Like dozens. A bunch of dozens.
That was news to me.

[rattlsnak]

Yeah, I was surprised at the broken arrow thing also!! Also didn't know anything about the german sub commander vote and us being 1 vote away from a war starting out over the Cuban Missile Crisis! All sorts of really interesting stories going on!

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

Yeah, I was surprised at the broken arrow thing also!! Also didn't know anything about the german sub commander vote and us being 1 vote away from a war starting out over the Cuban Missile Crisis! All sorts of really interesting stories going on!

One of my buddies was like me, the son of an Air Force pilot. His dad flew B-52s and he (the dad) talked about sitting at the end of the runway, loaded up with nukes, and ready to do his job. The Cuban missile crisis was in full swing. He was terrified for the future of his family and the rest of the world, but he was going to carry out the orders.

He said it was almost orgasmic relief when the orders came to stand down. They drank a lot of beer at the officers club that night.

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by IROC

I'd like to watch this. I would probably learn a lot about where I work now (Oak Ridge National Laboratory). I drive past the Graphite Reactor every day.

I grew up in Oak Ridge. Grandfather worked at K-25 during WWII, dad worked for AEC, ERDA, DOE.

What strikes me is just how this was going on in my town and it was like it didn't even exist. I remember people wearing their ID badges around town, I guess to show off. But I never, ever, heard anything ever mentioned about what went on in the plants.

Pre- 9-11 everyone could drive to the Graphite Reactor and just go in for a self guided tour. Try that now and see what happens...

[dad911]

Watching on demand now, thanks

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by dad911

Watching on demand now, thanks

Want me to tell you how it ends?

[95avblm3]

Originally Posted by matthewb0051

I grew up in Oak Ridge. Grandfather worked at K-25 during WWII, dad worked for AEC, ERDA, DOE.

What strikes me is just how this was going on in my town and it was like it didn't even exist. I remember people wearing their ID badges around town, I guess to show off. But I never, ever, heard anything ever mentioned about what went on in the plants.

Pre- 9-11 everyone could drive to the Graphite Reactor and just go in for a self guided tour. Try that now and see what happens...

My dad worked at Y-12 in the '80s. I spent most of my elementary school years in Oak Ridge. In fact, I remember the self-guided tour of the graphite reactor. I haven't seen this show yet but now my interest is peaked.

[IROC]

Yeah, access to Bethel Valley Road (that runs thru the Lab and past the Graphite Reactor) is now closed to the public, but ORNL (called X-10 during the Manhattan Project) is relatively low-security. Across the ridge from my facility is Y-12 where they still manufacture nuclear weapons. The security there is incredible.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by IROC

Yeah, access to Bethel Valley Road (that runs thru the Lab and past the Graphite Reactor) is now closed to the public, but ORNL (called X-10 during the Manhattan Project) is relatively low-security. Across the ridge from my facility is Y-12 where they still manufacture nuclear weapons. The security there is incredible.

Well that is a really GOOD thing!

[mjohnson]

Originally Posted by IROC

Yeah, access to Bethel Valley Road (that runs thru the Lab and past the Graphite Reactor) is now closed to the public, but ORNL (called X-10 during the Manhattan Project) is relatively low-security. Across the ridge from my facility is Y-12 where they still manufacture nuclear weapons. The security there is incredible.

Except for the nun at the uranium facility. I'm at LANL - we've had our own share of newsworthy problems, but can you imagine if they would have shot the nun?

The newly formed Manhattan District National Historic Park is working really hard with the DOE to get public access to the historic parts of Oak Ridge, Los Alamos and Hanford. Some might be open soon, some may be open never, but at least they're preserving this bit of history. It's everywhere here in LA. For ten years my office was 100 yards from where they assembled most of Fat Man, for the next five I moved down the road from the artillery range where they did all of the internal ballistics tests for Little Boy. In fact, someone just found another 1945 breach plug from LB sitting off in the weeds.

It's hard to get on the list (sells out fast) but there ARE public tours of the Test Site. I think you're stuck on the bus, but you can see tons of stuff. No cameras of course...

[Steve Carlton]

Thanks for the heads up! I subscribe to the magazine and it's great. Every issue has one or more great articles in it. You can subscribe with a huge discount, so it doesn't cost squat.

[Rusty Heap]

Broken Arrows: Nuclear Weapons Accidents
Since 1950, there have been 32 nuclear weapon accidents, known as "Broken Arrows." A Broken Arrow is defined as an unexpected event involving nuclear weapons that result in the accidental launching, firing, detonating, theft or loss of the weapon. To date, six nuclear weapons have been lost and never recovered.

1950s
Date: November 10, 1950
Location: Quebec, Canada
A B-50 jettisoned a Mark 4 bomb over the St. Lawrence River near Riviere-du-Loup, about 300 miles northeast of Montreal. The weapon's HE [high explosive] detonated on impact. Although lacking its essential plutonium core, the explosion did scatter nearly 100 pounds (45 kg) of uranium. The plane later landed safely at a U.S. Air Force base in Maine.

Date: March 10, 1956
Location: Exact Location Unknown
Carrying two nuclear capsules on a nonstop flight from MacDill Air Force Base near Tampa, Florida to an overseas base, a B-47 was reported missing. It failed to make contact with a tanker over the Mediterranean for a second refueling. No trace was ever found of the plane.

Date: July 27, 1956
Location: Great Britain
A B-47 bomber crashed into a nuclear weapons storage facility at the Lakenheath Air Base in Suffolk, England, during a training exercise. The nuclear weapons storage facility, known as an "igloo," contained three Mark 6 bombs. Preliminary exams by bomb disposal officers said it was a miracle that one Mark 6 with exposed detonators sheared didn't explode. The B-47's crew was killed.

Date: February 5, 1958
Location: Off Georgia, United States
In a simulated combat mission, a B-47 collided with an F-86 near Savannah, Georgia. After attempting to land at Hunter Air Force Base with the nuclear weapon onboard, the weapon was jettisoned over water. The plane later landed safely. A nuclear detonation was not possible since the nuclear capsule was not on board the aircraft. Subsequent searches failed to locate the weapon.

Date: February 28, 1958
Location: Great Britain
A B-47 based at the U.S. air base at Greenham Common, England, reportedly loaded with a nuclear weapon, caught fire and completely burned. In 1960, signs of high-level radioactive contamination were detected around the base by a group of scientists working at the Atomic Weapons Research Establishment (AWRE). The U.S. government has never confirmed whether the accident involved a nuclear warhead.

1960s
Date: January 24, 1961
Location: North Carolina, United States
While on airborne alert, a B-52 suffered structural failure of its right wing, resulting in the release of two nuclear weapons. One weapon landed safely with little damage. The second fell free and broke apart near the town of Goldsboro, North Carolina. Some of the uranium from that weapon could not be recovered. No radiological contamination was detectable in the area.

Date: July 4, 1961
Location: North Sea
A cooling system failed, contaminating crew members, missiles and some parts of a K-19 "Hotel"-class Soviet nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine off Norway. One of the sub's two reactors soared to 800 degrees Celsius and threatened to melt down the reactor's fuel rods. Several fatalities were reported.

Date: December 5, 1965
Location: Pacific Ocean
An A-4E Skyhawk attack aircraft loaded with one B43 nuclear weapon rolled off the deck of the USS Ticonderoga. Pilot, plane and weapon were never found.

Date: Mid-1960s (Date undetermined)
Location: Kara Sea
Soviet nuclear-powered icebreaker Lenin was forced to dump its reactors in the Kara Sea. Some accounts said the Lenin experienced a reactor meltdown.

Date: January 17, 1966
Location: Palomares, Spain
A B-52 carrying four nuclear weapons collided with a KC-135 during refueling operations and crashed near Palomares, Spain. One weapon was safely recovered on the ground and another from the sea, after extensive search and recovery efforts. The other two weapons hit land, resulting in detonation of their high explosives and the subsequent release of radioactive materials. Over 1,400 tons of soil was sent to an approved storage site.

Date: April 11, 1968
Location: Pacific Ocean
A Soviet diesel-powered "Golf"-class ballistic missile submarine sank about 750 miles northwest of the island of Oahu, Hawaii. Reports say the submarine was carrying three nuclear-armed ballistic missiles, as well as several nuclear torpedoes. Part of the submarine was reportedly raised using the CIA's specially constructed "Glomar Explorer" deep-water salvage ship.

Date: November 1969
Location: White Sea
The U.S. nuclear-powered submarine Gato reportedly collided with a Soviet submarine on November 14 or 15, 1969, near the entrance of the White Sea.

1970s
Date: April 12, 1970
Location: Atlantic Ocean
A Soviet "November"-class nuclear-powered attack submarine experienced an apparent nuclear propulsion problem in the Atlantic Ocean about 300 miles northwest of Spain. Although an attempt to attach a tow line from a Soviet bloc merchant ship; the submarine apparently sank, killing 52.

Date: November 22, 1975
Location: Off Sicily, Italy
The aircraft carrier USS John F. Kennedy and the cruiser USS Belknap collided in rough seas at night during exercises. Although it was declared as "a possible nuclear weapons accident," no subsequent nuclear contamination was discovered during the fire and rescue operations.

1980s
Date: October 3, 1986
Location: Atlantic Ocean
A Soviet "Yankee I"-class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine suffered an explosion and fire in one of its missile tubes 480 miles east of Bermuda. The submarine sank while under tow on October 6 in 18,000 feet of water. Two nuclear reactors and approximately 34 nuclear weapons were on board.

Date: April 7, 1989
Location: Atlantic Ocean
About 300 miles north of the Norwegian coast, the Komsomolets, a Soviet nuclear-powered attack submarine, caught fire and sank. The vessel's nuclear reactor, two nuclear-armed torpedoes, and 42 of the 69 crew members were lost.

Date: August 10, 1985
Location: Near Vladivostok, Russia
While at the Chazhma Bay repair facility, about 35 miles from Vladivostok, an "Echo"-class Soviet nuclear-powered submarine suffered a reactor explosion. The explosion released a cloud of radioactivity toward Vladivostok but did not reach the city. Ten officers were killed in the explosion.

1990s
Date: September 27, 1991
Location: White Sea
A missile launch malfunction occurred during a test launch on a "Typhoon"-class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine.

Date: March 20, 1993
Location: Barents Sea
The U.S. nuclear-powered submarine Grayling collided with a Russian Delta III nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine. Both vessels reportedly suffered only minor damage.

Date: February 11, 1992
Location: Barents Sea
A collision between a CIS (Commonwealth of Independent States) "Sierra"-class nuclear-powered attack submarine with the U.S. nuclear-powered attack submarine Baton Rouge. Both vessels reportedly suffered only minor damage. There is a dispute over the location of the incident in or outside Russian territorial waters.

2000s
Date: August 12, 2000
Location: Barents Sea
The CIS (Commonwealth of Independent States) "Oscar II" class submarine, Kursk, sinks after a massive onboard explosion. Attempts to resuce the 118 men fail. It is thought that a torpedo failure caused the accident. Radiation levels are normal and the submarine had no nuclear weapons on board.

Sources:
U.S. Defense Department
Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament
National Security Archive
Greenpeace
Joshua Handler, Princeton University
United Press International
The Associated Press
Blind Man's Bluff : The Untold Story of American Submarine Espionage

[tcar]

Hmmm, not listed is the "Broken Arrow" in May 1957 near Kirtland AFB in Albuquerque, NM.

B-36 lost a Nuke just South of Albuquerque (just a few miles from the school I was attending that day).

Bomb fell off the mechanism, through the bay doors and hit the ground. Wasn't armed, but the trigger exploded, killing a cow. Pretty big crater...

[mjohnson]

Originally Posted by tcar

Hmmm, not listed is the "Broken Arrow" in May 1957 near Kirtland AFB in Albuquerque, NM.

B-36 lost a Nuke just South of Albuquerque (just a few miles from the school I was attending that day).

Bomb fell off the mechanism, through the bay doors and hit the ground. Wasn't armed, but the trigger exploded, killing a cow. Pretty big crater...

I'm no expert in the field, but I understand that this one is what inspired the "modern" concept of nuclear explosive safety. Allegedly all but one of the arming subsystems was satisfied. These things have multiple redundant and independent sensors that must agree (Did I fall from a plane? I have spin rockets - am I spinning? and so on). There's a balancing act between "perfect" safety and 100% reliability at a moment's notice.

Sandia teaches a "Burned Board" course that pulls out artifacts from lots of accidents to show how difficult true subsystem independence is. It''s pretty fascinating.

I didn't see the Forrestal fire on the list. It also was very important, to this day, in how we establish the safety basis for our weapons.