Crossing the street has nothing to do with taking a right turn.
But yes, let this thread be a warning for all.

Good! This is what you should be doing. If you are at a stop sign with crossing pedestrian traffic, or at a red light, foot traffic has priority over you. They are not "bolting" right out in front of you, and they do not come out of "nowhere" - if you get the impression that they are, then you are not paying enough impression. They come from that foot path that is right in front of you.

When I was in high school, I somehow (it was probably from Car & Driver or something like that) learned about, and acquired a copy of, the British manual called Road Craft. While there some filtering-out-of-Britishness that must be done, I found, and still find, that it is an excellent manual for a newish driver for developing really good awareness of your environment and other road users when you're driving. A scenario like the one you describe is one that I specifically remember being illustrated.


Indeed - if you are driving in any even vaguely dense environment, you need to check for *everyone* crossing your path that has priority - not just those in cars. In my daily experience getting around it is so, so, so, so (ad infinitum) depressingly common that drivers do not pay attention to anything that is not a car. So for instance someone is waiting to make a left turn from a main street onto a side street and they see that oncoming car traffic is clear so they begin a turn, not having paid any attention to the people crossing the intersection, who they are then putting in danger.


My mother - of all people! Got in her first at-fault crash in decades, maybe ever, doing something similar to this last year. She was driving my late grandmother's Lexus, which she had come to really like and hoped to drive for years and years. Waiting to turn right onto a multi-lane commercial road, she saw the truck in front of her start to move out, looked left, started to move out...right into the back of the truck, which had stopped to wait for a car to pass.


Good! I never, ever change lane position, whether to the left or right, even if I am not changing into another lane, without looking behind me in my mirror. I only acquired this habit after moving to Chicago (where I drive as little as possible), as I hadn't needed it before, but years ago I noticed that it had become automatic.

No, they are not. If a driver in a car wants to change lanes across a bicycle lane, they must wait until the way is clear. This is true everywhere.

I just took a cursory look into the laws regarding this here in Washington State. It turns out that motor vehicles are to merge into the bicycle lane when approaching an intersection when intending to make a right turn. Bicycles approaching from behind are then required to yield to that motor vehicle.

Boy, I can see trying that one in somewhere like Seattle. I cannot think of a better way to get one's car cleated, or a mirror smashed, or otherwise wind up having some self-righteous (but typically uninformed) cyclist extracting his revenge.

I haven't read all of the other responses but this is 100% wrong. There is absolutely no situation when operating a motor vehicle where you are not supposed to be looking where you are going. If the vehicle is moving, you need to be looking where you are going.

You seem to think that the proper way to make a right turn is while staring out the left door window. Why?? Once you've glanced left and it's clear, why on earth would you continue looking left while your car is moving in the other direction? Sorry but you are defending terrible driving, on your part. What if there was a pedestrian or animal in your path? Is your excuse that there has never been one before? That sounds like the rationale of someone who just ran someone over, cops hear it all day. :rolleyes:

If the vehicle is moving, you need to be looking where it is going. No exceptions. The other driver was where he wasn't supposed to be. Happens all the time. Him or her driving any car, (and double if it was an SUV or PU truck), would have killed you instantly and they would have walked away. The physics of a 3-4000 lb. piece of steel going 60 mph against the front of an almost stopped 911 w nothing but an empty trunk in front of you would have made for a gruesome clean-up job. :(

You need to improve your driving. I don't want to see an, "RIP Sugarwood" thread where everyone remembers what a good guy you were. :(

Of course I shouldn't have been quite so categorical because I can't be completely familiar with laws in all major US cities, but I don't think the statements are incompatible. I understood the poster who I quoted to be referring to a case where there is a separate right-turn lane that is to the right of the bicycle lane, and the car lane is to the left of the bicycle lane. In these cases, the car driver has to check for traffic, make sure the way is clear, and then may change lanes. This is treated the same as any other lane change.

You may be referring to cases where there is no turn lane, or the bicycle lane turns into a "shared" bike/right-turn lane. In these cases, car drivers are subject to the same rules as with any other lane change - if the way is clear and you can safely move over, do so. If there is someone there or immediately behind you such that you can hit them, you have to wait until it's clear.

I'm very familiar with the laws that govern Chicago (state laws and local ordinances - Illinois is a home-rule state), less so with other places.

As for those "self-righteous" cyclists, probably all of them have regularly have been physically endangered on a regular basis by careless or otherwise hostile car drivers, so I don't blame them much.

i'm thrilled disaster was avoided.

now let the experts chime in about the intricacies of what "could have been", "should have been", and all the various scenarios that should have taken place to..

ahhh..you get the point.

happy you and your car are unscathed, Sugar.

let me be the first to compliment you on your visual graphics :)

As in most driving/riding/walking situations, there is the law and then there is common sense and courtesy. I would not dream of cutting-in on a bicyclist w my 3k lb. car just because I technically have the right of way. There is always a nicer way to do it, where you slow down and make sure that the two of you are on the same page, etc...

Pretty sure that is what you were conveying. :)

They were excellent. +++ :)

Ah, bicyclist laws....

around here, they have the right of way to the entire lane no matter how much they are impeding the flow of traffic.

Was that 3 in a row or abreast ?

Graphics were excellent, description could use some work. :)

Pedantic.

I would be shocked if sugar is found guilty of that.

Yes it was a perfect storm. You are profoundly correct. He was wrong.

However..........

Everyone should look right every time. Creep out, look again.

Don't do that any more.

You lucked out.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt

Look both ways, always, every time, learn the lesson dude.


Alternatively, continue on with your rationalizations, and NEVER consider riding a motorcycle or bicycle on the street.

No truer words. When turning right I have to look left, then right, then behind me to make sure some dickwad on a bicycle isn't about to snake through and go straight, and then do it all over again more and very quickly.

Same thing almost happened to me in my Westy. I pulled onto Highway 1 south of San Francisco and there was a car in my lane doing about 80 right toward me. Somehow he missed me when I swerved onto the shoulder and he also just missed clipping the car turning left onto the road I was turning from.

That's right, the guy was not only passing on a double yellow, he was also passing a left turn lane with a car in it. He was passing two cars: one in the normal lane and one in the left turn lane. Now that's what you call an idiot.

Was just telling someone yesterday about how I almost got killed in Ireland recently when my mind was somewhere else pulling out of a gas station onto a fast 2-lane highway. I looked left first instead of right and almost pulled into the path of a car going 50 mph straight into my drivers door.

I forgot for a second that I was driving a car from the RH side and that people drive on the wrong side of the road. Just for a second. Stopped one foot shy of pulling out and getting killed. Always look both ways. :cool:

Deserves a thread of it own:

How I survived!

We can make SW famous too....

Don't have Sugarwood (Darwin) moments...he sucks at statistics too :)

The original thread got me thinking about my particular parking lot turnout, about why so many times they bikers/runners do seem to "come out of nowhere" at work, so on friday, I stopped and figured it out. Took a pic this morning. Low and behold, there is a big old plant blocking the view. They run facing traffic up the wide shoulder closest to the car, and quicker than you can do a Left-right-left headturn, they are right in front of the car. I was thinking I was going senile and getting closer to running people over, but, in fact, it's a line of sight issue.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1561981174.jpg

Edit- also my original post mentioned "progressive town were pedestrians have the right of way". I knew that might be confusing. I should have written "progressive college town where people have such an entitled sense of safety regarding pedestrian rights, they don't even look as they step out into busy traffic as their heads are buried in their smart phones, texting away."