1965 engine crate engine
 

Hey guys,

Getting ready to pull the trigger on a crate engine for the '65 stang.
Mostly decided on a blueprint engine, but not sure which one.
They have a 235, 300 and 390 hp engine for ~$3300, 4500, and 5500, respectively.
Looking at the dyno, I am leaning towards the 235hp engine since most/all my driving is below 4k rpm.

What do you guys think?



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1566411078.jpg

Oops, supposed to say 1965 Mustang crate engine

Assuming you never get the urge to wind it up, yes go with base. I'd go with +1 assuming it idles ok and uses pump gas.

Well, personally I'm going to want the higher revving engine.

I think you're wise to consider the actual driving you do when making the selection.

Since I only drive street/highway now, I really appreciate the flat torque curve of the 4.6 in my '09 Bullitt Mustang. Horsepower numbers alone are great for bragging rights, but they don't necessarily translate to pleasant driving.

(edit) The numbers shown don't tell the tale of the internals used in each engine. That might also figure in, with me opting for forged or hypeutectic pistons, forged crank, better rods, etc.

Am a fan of displacement (or turbochargers). Fat powerbands make for pleasurable driving without much thrash. Low thrash tends to make for fewer problems or repairs.

We don't have all of the factors that need to be considered.
How much of a factor is co$t?
What transmission?
What rear gear?
Can the rest of the car handle the power in the 390?
etc...

Based on the information that we do have, I would say that you should NOT get the 300hp version. It's got less power through a lot of the rpm range that you'd be using.

But if you compare the 235 and the 390, then you can see that the 390 always has AT LEAST the same power as the 235, but sometimes quite a bit more. So if you ever want to use more, you can. And even with the 390, you can still short shift at 4k if you want. If the cost increase isn't an issue, then the 390 will potentially be more fun if you ever do want to dip into the loud pedal a bit deeper.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1566412839.JPGhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1566412839.JPG

For me, more is better. Auto or stick? With an auto a 2500 stall will overcome any lack of power down low and will make for a fun ride.

I went through a similar decision making process when I was in the market for my replacement engine for my El Camino. It was all how much HP do you want to pay for. As the Elky is my daily driver, a high HP engine was not seriously looked at.

In the end I bought a base 350, brand new not rebuilt, crate engine from GM. The good news for me is small block engines are super cheap. I had a new 350 delivered to my driveway for $1,700. I swapped it into place of the OEM 305 over the long Thanksgiving weekend.

I will answer your question with a question. Is the car to be used for just cruising or do you see you wanting the HP?

How are the brakes? Will they handle the higher HP? What about the transmission and driveshaft? The rear end? More HP to the rest of the drivetrain will cause more problems with all the other components. If your next step is to NEED bigger brakes, how far away is a new rear end, driveshaft and the rest.

Is this a Ford 289 cubic inch motor?

As others have said. Trans type, gearing, expected uss, brakes, cooling system...

Is this a period correct looking build or a restomod?

A 65 mustang may flex like hell with 390 hp twisting it. Meaning, the bigger engine may mean sub-frame and different / modified axle.

A thought.

Good point. I had a poppy red fastback K Code taken up to Shelby spec. It was a handful.

I agree with Steve (Masraum). The 390 will be more fun to drive and just because the power is there doesn't mean you have to use it. I wouldn't necessarily want to have to pay for the gas it would use, but that's why I drive a Honda.
Remember, you can feel torque, but not necessarily HP.

A 65 Mustang weighs about 2500 lbs. With the 390 horse that is about 6.5 lbs per hp. That is Hellcat territory and overkill without other major mods.

Wow, thanks guys!
Bone stock with auto trans.
Not sure of gears.
Drive to work once a week, family cruising, nothing needing 390hp!

235 it is which will still probably be more than it had originally.

If you look at the dyno charts, you will notice that the two more powerful engines don't give up anything to the lower power engine down low in its power band. They make more power across the board. They do not appear to be "peaky", sacrificing low end power for their improved power higher in the rev range. In light of that, I would go with the most powerful motor. You don't have to use it, but it is there if you want to use it.

I would also be quite interested in the differences in internal parts. Cast vs. forged crank, pistons, and rods, quality of valve train components, etc. I would assume the more powerful motor uses higher quality parts in those areas. I think that would lead to better longevity, especially if you hardly ever push it.

Anyway, I would rather have it and not want or use it than someday want it and not have it. There isn't much of a price difference to get the better equipment today, but it would get spendy to try to get there tomorrow from a lesser starting point.

Good answers / questions above^^^^^^^^^

I think the 300 does actually make less at the lower rpm range. It's just that the low power model starts with power numbers at 2000rpm and the middle engine starts at 2500. I cropped the two images of the 235 and 300 to show 2500-4000. The low powered model is making more torque for quite a bit of that range.
300 vs 235
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1566424015.JPGhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1566412839.JPG

If you do the same comparison for the 235 vs 390, then you can see that the 390 makes as much or more torque at every rpm than the 235.
390 vs 235
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1566412839.JPGhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1566412839.JPG

That was why my initial recommendation was for the 390. He can short shift all he wants, and I suspect the fuel economy and fun will be the same based on his right foot.

Have you looked at the offerings from Ford Performance? May be a bit above budget, but you can be assured that Ford engineers have done the homework on putting these together. Note that these all have an all forged rotating assembly.

https://performanceparts.ford.com/engines/#302

Also, I agree with others about having to think about the entire drivetrain, brakes, and other components. This can become a slippery slope indeed.

I had '65s with a 200 inline 6, a 260 V8 and a 289 V8. All ran like a scalded dog because the car was so light. Any would be pretty good for spirited driving.

The only version of that car that was a dog was the 170 inline 6.

A 302 or smaller would be a great choice for the use you describe...but why not just rebuild the engine you have?

My pops has a 67 playmate pink (LOL!) with the 302. I like that engine. Very fun to drive. Just not my cup of tea.... I like computerized FI wayyyyyy too much..

That is a rare car. I stole the pink dash off a totaled one once...and sprayed it black.

Same here. Personally, I wouldn't even consider the first two engines, and would do whatever it takes to make the third work (improved cooling, brakes, subframe, etc., if necessary).

In my life I have lamented some 'woulda coulda shoulda' decisions. The OP would not regret the 390 decision. The happiness of the economic choice fades. The comfort of the robust choice continues to please.

390 hp in a 2500 lbs car with ****ty brakes, crappy suspension, and small tires (245/50/15 is as big as it can take) would be one small step from a death trap.

Drop another 10 or 15 grand (or more) into restomod upgrades and it would be fine. Stock and 390 is far too much.

Totally agree. I have not once wished I had more power in my Elky. I could have dropped in a ton of power. Then spent a bunch fixing the drivetrain.

390 is way too much power for that drive train.

I have never understood people's obsession with big numbers. I had a 986 standard Boxster. 217hp. TONS of fun. Perfect amount of power for the platform.

235, put a nice exhaust on it, and enjoy driving it. Think you will sink some $ into the chassis later, fine, go with 300.

In my late teens/early twenties, I dated a girl with an original 68 playmate pink Mustang. Had a C4, but I think it was a 289 car not a 302. There was a registry of the cars and the numbers all were legit. She still has it almost 30 years later....

A man's gotta know his [car's] limitations.

Not much of a point in going with the 300 since it makes the same or LESS power until you get to almost 4000 rpm which is where the OP says he'll keep the revs.

Thanks again guys, some really good input here.
I am still leaning towards the 235hp for many of the reasons stated here.
The original engine was fine power wise, just getting tired.
The 235 will be a nice upgrade with room to grow later; aluminum heads, better cam...
Money is not the deciding factor, but it is a factor.
With the ~$2k saved, I can get a better tranny and/or disc brakes.
I did look at the ford stuff but waaaaay out of my league.
Also thought about rebuilding original engine but have too many projects as it is, and money wise, its not too much more to get a drop in crate engine.

Little more info:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1566484711.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1566484711.jpg


Prices are wrong, the 390 increased by about a grand since I got this info.

Wow, it is crazy how expensive Ford engines are. Way cheaper than Porsche for sure, but no wonder so many Ford hot rods and Chevy engines in them.

The graph helps the visualization. It sounds like the 235 (should be called 240) would be fine. The 300 wouldn't be the right choice for the intended usage. If any "upgrade" was desired, it'd be the 390 or nothing. But if the 390 is 6500 vs the 235 being 3300, I think I'd recommend the 235. If more visceral acceleration was required, it'd be cheaper to swap in lower gears in the back.

My advice would be to buy what you want now rather that add heads, cam, etc. The complete matched package will run better than monkeying with it. You can actually go backwards changing out things.

That 235 motor is not much different than an A Code with a Holly and alum intake.

Unless you are going to upgrade most aspects of your Mustang (which will cost more than a few dollars), you should stick with the 235 hp engine. Its torque curve, compared to the other two engines, works just fine for your intended use. No way in heck should you even consider the 390 hp engine.

My 66', pictured below, has about 325 hp and has numerous upgrades to keep me and the car in one piece: Radiator; Monte Carlo bar; roll bar; built T-5 tranny & driveshaft; frame connectors; traction bars; 9" rear end w/axles; performance suspension/brakes; etc, etc, etc.

Even if you only upgrade to the 300 hp engine, you are definitely going to have to upgrade your car.




http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1566489850.jpg

Holy poop that is gorgeous!