American Factory

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

The Chinese scare me, they have a billion people and they are just worker ants, to be used and discarded like dirt on the floor when they are no longer useful,

Yes, and I think this is big problem for us. Forget about technology transfer and government subsidies - how can US workers compete with Chinese workers who work 12 hours a day 7 days a week and only go home to see their families once or twice a year? They are completely brainwashed. They sing the company song every day, and have a cheerleading session before every shift. The Chinese workers were robots who never strayed outside the lines and the US workers showed very little discipline of any kind.

It was embarrassing as well as scary to see that group of managers meeting their counterparts in China. The US delegation were mostly ill-dressed fat slobs (and one idiot who showed up at a corporate meeting in jeans and a ratty “Jaws” tee shirt). They didn’t look like they were serious about what they were doing. The Chinese were trim, healthy looking and well dressed in western suits and ties. They were all business and took themselves seriously. The Chinese looked ready for corporate battle and the US guys looked ready for a backyard barbecue. One look at the people around that table and I thought “Holy sh11t we’re in trouble.”

[sc_rufctr]

Meanwhile what's happening in Hong Kong?

China will tear itself apart trying to maintain their old world...

[island911]

^^ ^ ^
Good Q.

The younger crowd really likes being part of a smartly productive culture. Yet the old guard sees highly controlled slave labor as the answer.




They (raccoon-reach) want America. --well, they want their idea of the USA.

[sc_rufctr]

That picture sums up Hong Kong and China... No democracy and yet there's a Cartier store is in the back ground.

The Rolex shop at the Hong Kong airport is one of the biggest in the world.

[Sooner or later]

I watched it this morning. They tried to start up a plant using 1960 management techniques in the 21st century.

They completely missed the boat. They thought the $2 raise would solve the problems yet compensation was only a small part of the poor performance.

Crappy management leads to crappy output.

I spent 25 years in manufacturing. I was on the ground floor at 2 Greenfield start ups and 2 major expansions. At the Greenfield plants the team grew together and were successful. The two expansions failed miserably due to old management and production workers refusing to rid themselves of their old "tapes" and shift to modern management.

[Sooner or later]

When the one manager showed a picture of the guy and says "He's a union supporter. He will be gone in two weeks" that was a labor law violation.

What the advisor told Chinese management about how in a union shop that workers would be required to go to the Union and not to management that was a false statement.

Having mandatory meetings for hourly workers discussing the future vote and telling them that with a union they might actually lose wages and benefits was borderline legal. Employees can talk all they want among themselves but as management you should stay neutral to avoid labor law violations.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by SeanPizzle

Went from making 29 an hour with GM to 11 an hour at China Glass, Inc.

Went from making 0 to making 12.
The 29 an hour job ended 18 months earlier.

[HardDrive]

I grew up in a strong Democrat, pro-union family. Then I got out into the professional world, and had to deal with unionized workers myself. I was, and am, disgusted. The arrogance and laziness are simply beyond belief.

[wdfifteen]

^^
The behavior of unions over the past few decades has been deplorable. They became their own worst enemies. They serve a great purpose, but they need to get their acts together.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Yes, and I think this is big problem for us. Forget about technology transfer and government subsidies - how can US workers compete with Chinese workers who work 12 hours a day 7 days a week and only go home to see their families once or twice a year? They are completely brainwashed. They sing the company song every day, and have a cheerleading session before every shift. The Chinese workers were robots who never strayed outside the lines and the US workers showed very little discipline of any kind.

It was embarrassing as well as scary to see that group of managers meeting their counterparts in China. The US delegation were mostly ill-dressed fat slobs (and one idiot who showed up at a corporate meeting in jeans and a ratty “Jaws” tee shirt). They didn’t look like they were serious about what they were doing. The Chinese were trim, healthy looking and well dressed in western suits and ties. They were all business and took themselves seriously. The Chinese looked ready for corporate battle and the US guys looked ready for a backyard barbecue. One look at the people around that table and I thought “Holy sh11t we’re in trouble.”

Sounds to me like the slant of the movie was created in the editing room. That's why I asked if it was "shades of Michael Moore."

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Sounds to me like the slant of the movie was created in the editing room. That's why I asked if it was "shades of Michael Moore."

Have you watched it?

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

The Chinese scare me, they have a billion people and they are just worker ants, to be used and discarded like dirt on the floor when they are no longer useful,

The same used to be said about Japanese factory workers. However once they start achieving success, they start thinking like democratic consumers can happen over a single generation. Happened in Russia too.

I suspect that China will be next. We'll see some desperate attempts by the Gov't to maintain the old-world machine but with a billion people to keep under control... ...but make no mistake, there are a LOT of chinese with a LOT of money. We can't complete with them economically... ...it will be at a social consciousness level I think....

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Have you watched it?

I'm trying to avoid it. Just asking questions. If you don't want to answer until I form an opinion... well, that might be awhile. Almost everything has a point in mind and writers and directors don't waste any time with the counterproductive.

That was what was wrong with McQueen's "Le Mans." There was no point until someone attempted to write one in. I'm not saying movies with no particular agenda are wrong, what I'm saying is that producers won't support that. We used to have art movies.

But I digress.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Zeke

I'm trying to avoid it. Just asking questions. If you don't want to answer until I form an opinion... well, that might be awhile.

There is no point in discussing a film with you that you haven't watched.

[Sooner or later]

What do yoy want ro discuss?

Management openly violating US labor laws?
Management thinking a $2 raise was going to resolve all their issues?
Bringing in process experts that couldn't speak English?
Using 1960 management techniques in the 21st century?
The Chinese treating their home based employees in a similar fashion to 1920 US methods?
Failure to use available tech to handle glass products when the plant was initially designed?

They completely missed the boat and ended up with an example of how not to start up a plant.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

They completely missed the boat and ended up with an example of how not to start up a plant.

That's for sure. Dayton, the State of Ohio, and the Chinese all invested a lot in this (I think the plant cost $500 million) and they were all let down by the managers of the operation. Both the Americans and Chinese had a lack of respect for each other and a lack of understanding of their different cultures, and neither of them had learned much by the time the film ended.

Two things really stood out to me:
When the "chairman" came over to inspect the new plant and told them to move the fire alarm strobe from it's proper position on the wall to under the table (!). He had no curiosity as to why it was placed where it was, he just wanted it moved. I'm not sure he even knew what it was, and he sure didn't care.
Then when the US delegation visited the headquarters in China and showed up looking like a bunch of hillbillies dressed for a funeral. No one told them to show some respect by wearing ties and suits that fit. At least none of them pulled out a can of Bud Lite during the meeting. I think the Chinese took one look at that delegation and figured they could roll this bunch of dumbasses easily.
The Chinese had too much control over everything and the US guys had nobody telling them how to act. Half a billion dollars spent on a total sh11t show.

[Ryan_Cunningham]

Originally Posted by SeanPizzle

Went from making 29 an hour with GM to 11 an hour at China Glass, Inc.

$60k/year for an relatively unskilled job in an area with a low standard of living is probably why that job went away in the first place. The majority of Americans are too entitled.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Alan A

Went from making 0 to making 12.
The 29 an hour job ended 18 months earlier.

Ive been thinking about this. The GM people they hired are people who could not find a job making more than $12 after 18 months of being out of work. I have to pay casual labor $15. Some of the workers seemed pretty bright and on the ball, others - I don't think they were the cream of the crop.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

There is no point in discussing a film with you that you haven't watched.

Why then do journalists review movies? Are we all supposed to go see them first and then read the reviews? Would that be to see if we agree with others?

I saw enough in the trailer. If the trailer isn't the essence of the movie (and it could be a come-along tease as many are) then it does disservice to the film. I'm not particularly interested in the Chinese manufacturing culture. They have done nothing good for us in the long run. Then they bring their siht show over here and it don't fly so well.

TooFB.

But wait, there's more: on the subject of American inefficiency and the poke through that ensues, don't we already know that? We could also make a comparison to the many, many foreign owed factories churning out cars, tools ... well, you name it.

But we're such slobs that we'd never be able to produce, say, something like a Toyota car.

It has Michael Moore written all over it. BTDT.

[Icemaster]

Journalists I know personally research the material before writing on it, including the ones who write on movies.

Watched it over the weekend, there were arguments on both sides. Former union folks used to a high pay rate and a pretty controlled workplace vis-a-vis hours/work week, pay, safety, other stuff. Chinese are used to the wild west with no regulation, more or less. The movie drew a good contrast between expectations and work ethics of the Chinese and US working class.

I didn't get any shades of Michael Moore's typical recipe of celluloid swill.