Modern muscle: How much HP is too much?

[sugarwood]

Guy wrecks Hellcat an hour after getting it

This seems analogous to the 1100cc sport bikes that seems like overkill for street use. Do 450hp+ cars have a legitimate place for non-professional street driving, or are they really just a pissing contest? Does anyone feel that a car in the 200-300 HP range is plenty powerful for reasonable street driving? Is more always better, if the driver has the skills to use the power? Is there a point where there there is little benefit for additional horsepower?


Look at this series of Corvette crashes. There seem to be 2 main themes?
Some begin a 90* turn with excessive acceleration and then oversteer and spin out.
But some others seem to lose rear traction just by accelerating too hard in a straight line.
Is that a case of too much power at the wheels for the driver?




It seems he lost control after shifting to 2nd.
Is this a case of too much power ?

[Chocaholic]

Stupidity isn't limited by horse power. My daughters 143hp Honda Civic will easily go 100+. So, I don't think regulating or limiting gasoline powered bandwidth will raise the intelligence or maturity level of the car-buying public.

[Rick V]

My little 82SC and my 97 Boxster really have too much power for the street if you drive them the way they were intended to be driven, and lets face it, we are not talking a whole lot of power in either one of those cars.
The driver is almost always the cause of an accident, high horse power is just a little bit more opportunity for said driver to make a mistake.
Lets also remember that today's cars have a ton of gizmos to help the driver but you still can't take the driver out of the situation that poor judgement puts them in. Do we need cars like this? No, can we have cars like this? Yes, but we should all be old enough for our wants not to hurt us, or anybody else for that matter.

[SiberianDVM]

It's still the loose nut behind the wheel that is responsible, but IMHO anything over 300hp is wasted in a street car.

This week has been extremely rainy here, and I have to be careful not to get on the gas too hard on my weakling RSX Type-S and M3. Neither has a working traction control, and while I enjoy controlling the wheel spin and car direction with the throttle, it's not for everyone.

[yellowperil]

My BMW M3 had a lot of HP, but mostly a very driver Unfriendly car. I hated every inch of that car. That's what owning a Porsche will do to ya.

[pavulon]

need vs want...the endless 1st world dilemma.

[cashman]

I have 3 - 300 HP cars and have said numerous times anything more is a waste. Not usable on the street.

I have a friend that just bought a new BMW M4. 475 HP I think. He brags about the HP yet will never go more than 1/2 throttle and won't take it to a track. What's the point?

[Seahawk]

This discussion is always interesting to me given all the variables that go into "how much" is enough.

I have been driving my dad's 1993 RX-7 FD the past week: Holy acceleration and handling, Batman.

The thing weights 2130lbs and has only 252HP matriculating it down the highway, but it could be considered irresponsible since taking 45mph corners at twice that in soundless, soulless competence without much driver skill isn't in the Highway Patrols definition of responsible.

I have driven that same corner in a friends late '90's convertible Mustang 5.0 that weighed nearly a thousand pounds more with 25 less hp than the RX-7 and I felt like I was going to depart the roadway at much slower speeds: The suspension and tire set-up helped the car alternate from wallowing to skittish insouciance in the same corner.

Anyway. HP isn't the measure I use. Our family car was a 1968 Ford Country Squire with the 494 cubic inch motor that had itty bitty drum breaks all around riding on 8.45/15 tires with a curb weight over 4,100lbs: That was irresponsible

[yetibone]

I don't believe it's necessarily the power the vehicle has, but as Seahawk pointed out with the Mustang GT analogy; certain cars CAN have too much power for their chassis' characteristics, and thus present a challenge to the less experienced or less talented drivers. Same may have been the case with the Hellcat that was balled up an hour after leaving the showroom. I don't know. I'm not sure if that Dodge has traction ctrl, or stability ctrl, etc... but those features go a LONG way towards making high HP become less of a liability to insurance companies, and the auto manufacturers

A modern Porsche can lay down 400hp, and make a make a pretty novice driver feel like a pro. Even though the weight distribution is decidedly right for snap oversteer, all of the driver aids, in some cases including AWD, make the car much easier to control. Alternately, +300hp from a 35 year old 930 could make Stig look like a rookie. Boost coming online at such high RPM, lotsa weight in back, etc...

I suppose that I think that there can be either too much horsepower, OR that there can be NOT ENOUGH car for the power on tap. Both could be said of the very same car though.

Also, a vehicle with lotsa power, a good chassis, and very advanced driver aids for controlling stability, traction, braking, etc... can still make a path thru the bushes in the hands of the wrong driver.

[sc_rufctr]

Two words... "Traction Control"

When that became "standard" cars were getting more powerful than their tires and chassis could handle.

[mreid]

It's not how fast you can go, but how fast you can get there!

This is all bragging rights, little more. My Cobra weighed 2,100 lbs. and had 530hp at the flywheel. I'm a good driver and it scared the heck out of me!

[Por_sha911]

Speed never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you.
-Jeremy Clarkson

[onewhippedpuppy]

You can try to idiot proof cars, but they'll just come up with better idiots.

[J P Stein]

You can buy HP but good judgment must be earned.

[Hawkeye's-911T]

I subscribe to the adage others have stated before in one form or another, "too much horsepower is a whole lot better than not enough." Also to address other points made re: safety devices (traction control etc.) which in the cold light of day, assure the truly incompetent will merely crash at a higher speed. Time for another egg-nog.
Have a safe & Merry Christmas everyone.

Cheers
JB

[campbellcj]

I suspect it's really the combination of evil handling traits, weak driver skills and lack of common-sense and situational awareness that gets people into trouble, not power. Just about any vehicle can get going fast enough in 5-10 seconds to kill ya' dead and take others with you.

I love torque-laden AWD cars for the street - have two right now - but I like to believe I have bit more driving ability and situational awareness than most oblivious if not downright idiotic LA drivers, plus I maintain my cars religiously.

[MMARSH]

I seriously contemplated buying a Hellcat....Just because. I settled on the standard SRT which is essentially a Hellcat without a supercharger. Special ordered the car at the beginning of October and got it the day before Thanksgiving. I LOVE IT. It sounds absolutely fantastic going thru the gears, Handles well enough and I really enjoy driving it. Its put together very well. It was exactly what I wanted and it makes me smile every time I drive it. OF course it doesn't handle like my 911, but the 911 doesn't ride like the SRT either. They both make me smile for different reasons.

Looks big next to the 911

[creaturecat]

600 would be the cut off point for me.
That's plenty.

[Steve Carlton]

I'm drawing the line at 708hp.

[HardDrive]

It really is all about the traction control and AWD. I think high HP cars can be used on the street by a reasonably good (and responsible) driver as long as the computers are there to curb your enthusiasm.

Is there a point of diminishing returns? Big time. Hard to place a number on it, but I doubt people are ever actually using more than 400-450 hp on the street.....except when they turn the traction control off and take their car on an off road excursion.