Old Town Canoe Repair

71T Targa · 10-31-2019, 02:19 PM

I was given an Old Town Canoe with a big crack in it. According to the owner, they used it twice and then while it was in storage in their back yard the wind picked it up and dropped it on a tree stump. Now they are moving and wanted it gone.

It's an Old Town Guide series 147. From what I can find it's a mid-end canoe from about 10 years ago. Polyethylene construction.

I've been watching videos and it looks like there are two schools of thought on repair. One is to plastic weld the crack, and melt in some new material. The second (and what Old Town seems to recommend) is to use an epoxy and cloth and lay it up like fiberglass.

I'm not as concerned about looks as I am having it be sea worthy and am looking for advice. One thought I had because of it's size and location was to drill holes along the sides of the crack and then 'sew' it together. Then use the epoxy/cloth to cover that. If I were to go that route, what would I use for thread?

Or maybe this the perfect application for FlexSeal or FlexTape?

What would you do? Do you think this can be saved or is it just too big?

Seahawk · 02:37 PM

What are your plans for it?

If it is destined for fairly benign use, I'd do what Old Town seems to recommend, especially if looks aren't an issue. Their website is interesting: https://www.oldtowncanoe.com/blog/article/canoe-kayak-repair-guide

My first kayak was a fiberglass Phoenix Slipper. By the time I was done with it it looked like Jake LaMotta after 15 rounds but it was sound for white water.

I'd experiment with cinches on either side of the break, using blocks, etc., to pull the canoe together before applying any fiberglass or Old Town recommended material.

With plastic weld, I'd apply then cinch.

Good luck. Nice boat.

71T Targa · 10-31-2019, 02:49 PM

Thanks Paul, I'd be putting myself and a kid or two in it and running slow river/flat lake. Maybe putting it in to a calm part of the sound.

Or venturing as far as something like Ross lake if it seems sea worthy after some usage.

71T Targa · 10-31-2019, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Stop drill, epoxy inside the crack, epoxy and FG cloth on the inside.
Sand inside area for tooth
The Fiberglass cloth- one-piece larger than the first for a total of three for the layup.

PS do a test on a small area first, some plastics do not adhere to epoxy.

So do all of the work inside?

How big of a stop hole?

Bill Douglas · 10-31-2019, 03:16 PM

I'd take it to a plastic bumper repair place.

They're experts in repairing plastics and in your case Polyethylene. I wouldn't put fiberglass on it. Too dissimilar. You could end up in chit creek without a paddle.

71T Targa · 10-31-2019, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

I'd take it to a plastic bumper repair place.

They're experts in repairing plastics and in your case Polyethylene. I wouldn't put fiberglass on it. Too dissimilar. You could end up in chit creek without a paddle.

The bumper repair place is an interesting idea. I'll look around.

I wouldn't use fiberglass. It's more like this. from West Marine

deanp · 10-31-2019, 04:46 PM

Polyethylene is a low surface energy plastic and it can be difficult to bond. We’ve used Loctite 3035 acrylic adhesive at my place of work (we’re rotational molders and I deal with polyethylene everyday) and it works very well. I would try to bond the crack with that and then look at reinforcing the area around it on both sides.

rfuerst911sc · 11-02-2019, 02:19 PM

If you take a large screwdriver or a crow bar can you pry open some/most of the crack ? If you can I like Milt's idea of getting something " in there " not just " on there " . A deep set of wood workers clamps or welding clamps could pull it in level until it dries . Once that is dry I would finish off the crack with something like JB Weld or if that's too much work an adhesive caulk .

I am making an assumption that there is an inner liner that is not cracked is that correct ? Or does the crack go through to the inside ? If the crack goes all the way through a different approach would be needed .

unclebilly · unclebilly's Garage

There are only a few structural adhesives that stick to polyurethane.

3M DP8005. I recall this one having small beads in it to maintain a correct adhesion gap. I would start with this but get the crack lined up when you ‘glue’ it.

I would then cover the crack with a patch made from thin aluminum sheet riveted on with a healthy layer of DP8005 between the hull and the aluminum. You could also use windshield urethane for this part.

The key is that the glue will fix the crack and the aluminum patch will keep it from cracking again. The polyurethane will keep it all sealed up.

rfuerst911sc · 11-03-2019, 05:38 AM

Not sure if this will work on your material but I have used this on a variety of boats and it grips/holds/seals like crazy .

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/?N=5002385+3293241048+3294857497&rt=rud

javadog · 11-03-2019, 05:46 AM

I would first drill holes in each of the crack, to prevent further propagation. I would then align both sides of the crack and either plastic weld it back together, or use an adhesive, maybe something along the lines of what body shops use for structural bonding. You can call 3M and talk to someone on the engineering side, give them your application and have them recommend the most suitable product. I’d then mechanically rivet a piece of metal inside to reinforce it, as has been explained above. I don’t know that I would use aluminum, as it is easier to bond to other metals.

Then put a roll of flex tape in the boat.

unclebilly · unclebilly's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by javadog

I would first drill holes in each of the crack, to prevent further propagation. I would then align both sides of the crack and either plastic weld it back together, or use an adhesive, maybe something along the lines of what body shops use for structural bonding. You can call 3M and talk to someone on the engineering side, give them your application and have them recommend the most suitable product. I’d then mechanically rivet a piece of metal inside to reinforce it, as has been explained above. I don’t know that I would use aluminum, as it is easier to bond to other metals.

Then put a roll of flex tape in the boat.

And 3M will recommend DP8005...

legion · 11-03-2019, 06:51 AM

My thoughts were to plastic weld the outside and epoxy the inside to keep it together.

john70t · 11-03-2019, 10:03 AM

I was thinking after the repair do a wrap.
But that would not hold up for more than a few years if at all.

look 171 · 11-03-2019, 11:38 AM

I am with Milt and a couple of other guys on this. Mechanical fastener with a piece of metal would be my choice. Of course, pull the crack and glue that first, then mechanical fastener, cover with epoxy and it should be good to go

71T Targa · 11-04-2019, 07:58 AM

I worked a bit on the plastic weld option. Melting in the crack, and using a small patch of some HDPE material.

After allowing to cool overnight, the original material seems to be holding well, but I was able to pry the patch material off with a screw driver. It's a slow process, but I am going to continue down the 'free' path of welding the crack closed and see where that gets me.

javadog · 11-04-2019, 08:33 AM

Stealth 316 - Sealing and Bonding Polypropylene and Polyethylene

https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/document.do?docId=420

Bill Douglas · 11-04-2019, 08:40 AM

I'm sure Old town customer service will be happy to give advice.

As mentioned earlier bumper repair places have lots of plastics (Polyethylene) that they plastic weld/blow torch melt into repairs. Polyethylene is weird stuff for getting other products to stick to so I'm sure it will be a hot melt sort of repair.