Homeschooling

[IROC]

So...I have a son that is in 4th grade. He hates it. Hates school. Dreads it every day. He makes good grades and from outward appearances, does just fine (according to his teachers who we have consulted on the subject). Has lots of friends, does after school activities, etc.

But he hates school. Tears in his eyes every morning. His hatred of school is really only a part of a larger problem - he has some anxiety issues. He's been going to child psychologist since August (hasn't helped much) but she confirms that he has anxiety.

My wife wants to pull him out and home school him. I am pretty firmly against it.

Her logic is that she wants to do everything in her power for him to have a happy childhood and removing him from school eliminates one of the things that causes him anxiety (there are others). My position is mostly "removing him from school doesn't fix the anxiety - it just sends the message that if you don't want to do something, you don't have to do it". I told my wife that I think - as parents - our primary job is to prepare our kids for the real world. And the real world involves doing things you don't necessarily like to do and getting along with people, etc., but you have to learn how to deal with these things. That is a valuable skill. Pulling him out of school is the exact wrong thing to do IMHO. I am voting that we address the anxiety issues and the school problem eases.

I solicit the wisdom of Pelican.

[cabmandone]

My take.
I'm not sure that removing him from school because it's stressful and causing anxiety will help him when he reaches adulthood. I tell my kids "if you think school is hard, wait till you hit the real world"
Having said that, I know kids who are home schooled, participate in public school activities and are well adjusted.

My oldest did well in school but didn't like it. We found a psychologist that was really able to connect with her. Sometimes it just takes finding the right person to get the kid to open up. Ask around. I'm sure you'll be able to find someone easier for your child to open up to.

[widebody911]

All of the homeschooled kids I've ever met were socially maladjusted; this will probably just make it worse for him.

I know it was a different time, but my dad had a "don't want to _______" correction device, which was comprised of a piece of leather about 36" long, 2" wide, and about 1/8" thick.

[Sooner or later]

Why does he hate it. Any specifics?

[cabmandone]

BTW, it sucks seeing your kid struggle. I know. As they get older I don't think they know how much of their struggles become our struggles. The first time my son saw me cry it totally freaked him out. I told him when he hurts, I hurt and seeing him struggling made me hurt for him.
Let your kid know you understand and that you've been there and will be there for them. There's nothing you can't overcome together.

[GH85Carrera]

Back when Leave it to Beaver was on the air, I was in grade school. Dad was Air Force, so every single year I went to a different school. Some schools were great, a few really sucked.

Is it possible to move your son to a different school. It is something to talk to him about. He may have a certain kid at school that is the trouble causer. A different school, and he starts with a clean slate.

And like others have said, some home schooled kids have real issues dealing with the real world if they were too insulated.

Of course I have no kids, so I can claim to have the perfect answer for all children. I have never made a mistake with kids!

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by Zeke

This is a very difficult subject for a forum discussion. First, I'd look for a new mental health professional — I mean yesterday because one size doesn't fit all in this deal.

I've been through this with both kids. Each had their own set of circumstances and the schools involved were culpable as well for different reasons. Our solution was private schools. Made a big difference and both kids went on to successful careers, one having fallen short of a masters by one class at the state university. The other has a family and is making really good money and happy with the job.

I think our problems with the younger started about the same time, maybe 5th grade and it just went from bad to worse. You have to listen to the child. In my case the child was right about many things and we set about to get those sorted as well as we could. Don't think they fail to notice.

I have to take exception to those that advocate using a belt (metaphorically or otherwise) to address the problem. And to those that believe life only gets tougher as we enter adulthood, that is not as it should be.

I will drift a bit from the topic at hand to say a broader exposure is needed for some youngsters so that they can see that there is something beyond the rote task of schooldays.

If someone has taken the responsibility to bring a child into this world, then that someone must walk beside the child as they face life's challenges. At times one must walk in the child's shoes.

School is part of life, not life itself.

Wow, nostatic’s back and he’s hacked Zeke’s account!

That’s a nice response to the OP, Zeke.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Wow, nostatic’s back and he’s hacked Zeke’s account!

That’s a nice response to the OP, Zeke.

Concur. There is a whole homeschooling network you may want to explore before you guys make a choice.

I know a number of families that homeschooled and their kids are some of the best young adults I know. Most got their kids to HS then got them into public or private schools.

Take your time with an open mind. The stereotypes are, well, stereotypes.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Zeke

I have to take exception to those that advocate using a belt (metaphorically or otherwise) to address the problem. And to those that believe life only gets tougher as we enter adulthood, that is not as it should be.

It's not how is "should be" but it is how it is. There are so many real pressures in adulthood that the pressures you face as a child simply don't compare.

[asphaltgambler]

As said above and very wisely so..............as with most things a proper diagnosis is the first place to start. I think that your wife wants to solve problem immediately by her assessment which may or may not be correct. For a kid a that age to come to tears daily before leaving for school is a serious issue, possibly even a bullying situation.

I recommend a strategic plan to get to the root cause. Speaking 1 on 1 with his teachers, talking with him and asking what the specific problem is - if you have a good father / son trust he may reveal that when pressed.

I can relate. At adolescence in the early 70's - I began to question everything and struggled at school. I have dyslexia but nobody knew what that was then. Entering the 7th grade where the system starts preparing you for college and therefore harder and more complex subject matter.....I was failing.

My dad and I just could not relate to each other. Not an uncommon thing with fathers of that era. I became disruptive and started experimenting with pot.

I failed 7th grade and my father put me in a reform school. At the time I absolutely hated him for it, hated that school. Until 1 teacher reached out to me which was the turning point.

If I had only had my dad or someone I trusted sit down with me and talk about what was bothering me - I might have avoided all that. Thing is even at that age, looking back I'm not sure I could have articulated what was wrong but an experienced adult could.

[DonDavis]

Mike, you know where I grew up. I hated school as well. Had tears almost every day in Blountville grade school.
Jr High wasn't much better, but I no longer cried.
HS was just as difficult and I almost never socialized with any of my school friends.

Lived on the edge of Bristol, so my neighborhood friends went to Bristol schools.

The single biggest contributing factor to my HS graduation was my father keeping me busy as hell at home. I almost hated that as much as school. His genius was that boys need to be pushed with physical work. In the '70s, he would say the same things we hear today about kids and gadgets.

Put a shovel in my hand, made a list of siht to do.
Alllll the time...it was a lot.

Mom protested ALL the time. "You're gonna kill that boy with work!" He'd just hrumpf and walk away. Cuz he knew it wouldn't. And he was right.

Here's the twist...he liked cars and motorcycles. I had a MC from 5yrs- 19.
I had to perform at school to get to ride them. I'd walk past them on my way out the door, and just focused on getting through the day so I could ride at night.

A lot of baseball, too. But not through school, played other leagues closer to home.

But here's where I dropped the ball. I didn't realize all this until just a few years ago.
When my son was born I thought I had a decent handle on parenting.
But I was not on the same page as his Mom.
I wanted him to work and not quit stuff, she was much more "We need to do what schools say."
Which led to medication, blah, blah blah.

He just needed to get out and be productive. Not just outside goofing off, he needed actual work structure to harness his scattered, young male brain.

After our divorce, he spent prob 60-70% time at his Mom's. At my place things were good. Over there, not so much. He struggled with school, ended up quitting, but got his GED almost immediately.

My son is now 20, works hard, and improving.

My take? No to Homeschooling. I applaud your wife's care and concern, but I doubt it's the solution your son craves.

Oh, you can forget about asking what he wants. He doesn't know and asking him causes anxiety and more doubt in himself. Even if he answers, after a short ime of doing what ever he says he wants, he'll hate that, too.

He's a guy. Wants to do guy stuff. Schools are structured for girls to succeed. More and more "guy things" ( aka, life stuff ) are being removed from schools. Leaving guys to video games to make their brain happy.

He needs a strong male figure working alongside him. Sweating, thinking, accomplishing stuff. Then create tasks for him on his own. Come back, calmly recognize his work. Then add more next time.

His self worth, and reduction of anxiety, will come from strong male figures approving of his work.

*queue up the snowflakes...

[masraum]

Has he given you any sort of idea what the issue is or what is causing the anxiety? I'd assume it's an external cause (teacher, student, etc...). If that's the case, then identify the problem and figure out what needs to be done to fix it.

I agree, just pulling the kid out of school is not necessarily the best/right answer (but it could be, depends on the issue).

Our kids were both home schooled, but we put them in public school in Jr high. I think having kids in a group setting with lots of others is important for development.

beating a kid that's got anxiety is probably also not the best option.

[cabmandone]

Does he have friends in school that come over or that he goes to their house to play with? Sometimes a lot of the anxiety they face, and sadly it starts very early, is fitting in.
If he's struggling to make friends, encourage him to get involved with a youth group.

Originally Posted by masraum

beating a kid that's got anxiety is probably also not the best option.

It would qualify as the worst option since he'd face anxiety at school and once home.

[legion]

Complicated topic.

I'm not saying this is your situation, but let me relay the story of a friend who homeschools. This is more of a cautionary tale that illustrates some of the pitfalls.

A friend of mine has four kids. There is no question that his wife wears the pants in the family. He goes along with whatever she says. His wife has a degree in early childhood education. She worked for a day care for a few years, but this facility had a habit of firing any employee that lasted longer than three years to keep costs down. She opened her own, in home daycare when she got fired (which I do believe was no fault of her own).

When their oldest was five, they sent her to kindergarten. She (the daughter) complained loudly about "not liking" kindergarten. In my opinion, by this age, the daughter had already figured out that persistent whining would get her what she wanted. So mom met with the teacher, and mom met with the school administrators, and mom decided that her daughter was not getting enough personal attention from the school. Two months in, and mom pulled her from kindergarten and decided to home school the daughter--while at the same time running a daycare (more on this later).

A couple years later, the next oldest wanted to go to school, so mom sent the girls back to public school. The oldest was now in 2nd grade, and the next oldest was in kindergarten. The 2nd oldest loved kindergarten, the oldest still whined about not liking school. Mom had meetings with teachers and administrators again, and again concluded that her oldest daughter was not getting adequate attention from her teachers. About two months into the school year, she pulled both girls from public school and elected to homeschool them both.

So here we are, 10 years later. The oldest two girls have attended public school briefly. The oldest is allegedly a sophomore in high school and the next oldest is allegedly in 8th grade. The next daughter and youngest son have never attended public school and have never been given the option. "Homeschooling" for these kids consists of each of them having a tablet loaded with their grade-specific curriculum. The kids all know that they can pretty much play all day long while mom tends to the daycare and whine themselves out of any schoolwork they don't want to do. Each of the kids is severely deficient in some critical skill. The oldest cannot write a paper. One of the other girls had trouble with basic math. It turns out, mom didn't really have time to give the kids enough personal attention.

The kids also have trouble relating to other kids their age because they are basically ignorant of how a school works and they have never been aware of or participated in any extra-curricular activities.

I think in this case, all of the kids would have been better served in public school rather than by "homeschooling". I think the parents should have ignored a 5 year old whining and not treated it as a serious problem, and definitely not let it impact how they educated the other 3 children.

Mike, I'm not saying that this is your situation at all, but I think that it illustrates some of the potential downsides to homeschooling if proper care is not taken.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Zeke

You have to listen to the child.

I agree. Not necessarily listen to what the child is literally telling you, but keep your eyes open for the truth behind what he says.

Originally Posted by Zeke

I have to take exception to those that advocate using a belt (metaphorically or otherwise) to address the problem. And to those that believe life only gets tougher as we enter adulthood, that is not as it should be.

Again, I agree. You will be more capable of sorting out his anxiety problem in a one-on-one setting at home than they will at school. With 20 or 30 kids in a class, how could they possibly have time to help a struggling child?
Home schooling doesn't have to be a permanent thing. You could do it from the perspective of preparing to take on public school, and subsequently adulthood, in the future.

[legion]

This.

Originally Posted by DonDavis

He's a guy. Wants to do guy stuff. Schools are structured for girls to succeed. More and more "guy things" ( aka, life stuff ) are being removed from schools. Leaving guys to video games to make their brain happy.

[DonDavis]

Auto Shop was full.
So was Building/Construction.
I took Air Conditioning/Refrigeration for 2 years in High School.

Hey Mike, remember Mr. Sanders? We welded, soldered, grinded, broke and fixed washers, dryers, 'fridges, vacuum cleaners, hair dryers...

He said "If you have anything, and I mean anything, that's broke, bring it in. We'll look at it."

So many Field trips to peoples homes to work on their Appliances.
It was amazing.

[cabmandone]

I went over your OP again and have to think there's some external pressure that's being missed. Getting good grades, Has friends, Participates in activities.
What does he do for stress relief? Is there some activity he enjoys that maybe you could take part in with him? I found as my son was growing up that taking part in activities he enjoyed gave me time to be with him and sometimes ask "how's everything going?". If you're not doing it already, make yourself as available to him as you can. You'll find he'll open up to you and when he does, be prepared to listen and don't "poo poo" his concerns and try not to marginalize his worries. Sometimes really listening and then trying to draw from your own life experiences really helps.

Good luck and I hope you figure out what the underlying cause of his anxiety is. Like I said, I've been there and I know it's no fun.

Edit: Make sure the problem your son is having doesn't become a problem between you and your wife. Sit down with her and work on a plan of action. Make sure you're listening to her concerns and do your best to articulate your concerns with homeschooling. But it's important that the two of you come to an agreement on the best path forward for your son. Again... good luck.

[Cajundaddy]

Like anything, diagnosing the real problem is the 1st step. Once you discover the root cause of anxiety you can address it effectively. Sometimes teaching coping skills is a better long term approach than avoidance.

Modern public school is focused pretty tightly around following directions and conforming to the mean. Not much room for kids who fall outside the mean. I have seen kids thrive in private school and home school. I have also seen a few home school train wrecks.

The greatest success story with home school I have seen were a pair of highly active boys who were pulled from PS around 3rd grade due to perceived "ADD" and suggestion that the kids be put on drugs. Mom wasn't having it so she home schooled them. Every morning started with chores, then 3 hours of studies, lunch, and then a build project or field trip in the afternoon. Both kids picked a sport and a musical instrument and went to HS group classes for these. They thrived in this environment with one being accepted to MIT and the other to UCLA. I think both are engineers today.

Roughly 1/2 of my extended family are educators and only 1/2 of those would enroll their kid in PS today. It has become a very inefficient system and life skills are being abandoned in favor of conformity.

[berettafan]

IROC I feel for you. I understand both your side and your wife's. I've held my son while he cried over something he didn't understand. It guts you.

I don't think there is a clear answer here other than try a different counselor if the current one isn't making a difference. Anxiety is real. it can be debilitating. It also is something kids talk about amongst themselves. A lot. They self diagnose and of course that diagnosis becomes self fulfilling. Not saying the anxiety isn't real---it is VERY real---but it can come from many places.

My 10yr old just told us the other day one of her friends had to drop an advanced math class because she 'has anxiety and would have to go on pills if she didn't drop the class'. Kids today talk about anxiety like kids in our generation talked about GI Joe and farts.

I don't believe in home schooling. I've seen kids become complete useless **** ups from it and I've seen some achieve positive results in it but, IMHO, they achieved in spite of it, not because of it.

If your son was struggling with grades and/or friends I'd give careful thought to a QUALITY private school but I'm not sure what's to be gained by that right now if he truly is doing well in those areas.

Are there other aspects of your son's life that can be simplified to reduce anxiety? Social media issues? Just having social media sets a base level of anxiety that is pretty tough to manage.

I'm sorry I don't have answers for you but you definitely should know this anxiety thing is incredibly prevalent amongst kids and THEY KNOW IT. I don't know what that means for us parents.