Bankruptcy

[JackDidley]

How many times can a guy file? Local business has liens. Owner sells business. New owner decides he is not going to pay said liens. Lien holder goes to court and court orders property sale to satisfy liens. Days before the sherrifs sale owner files chapter 11 in bankruptcy court
and stops the sale. Lienholder goes back to court and judge throws out chapter 11 and orders sale. 5 minutes before auction lawyer comes in with chapter 13 filing and stops sale. More court bla bla bla, new sale scheduled. Last minute owner goes back to court files chapter 7 and stops the sale. I may not have the chapter numbers right but the basic facts are correct. How many times can the guy drag this out ? Has to be costing the auction company some coin in man hour and advertising. Any legal guys got any input on this ?

[rattlsnak]

Just to be clear, the new owner is filing the bankruptcy?

[legion]

There are scum who specialize in this. And by scum, I mean both business owners and lawyers.

[JackDidley]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

Just to be clear, the new owner is filing the bankruptcy?

Yes. He inheirited the liens when he bought the facility. Pretty sure he is a con man. He was sure he could get investors that would pay the liens.

[biosurfer1]

I think there is a limit, but he might not be close yet.

I knew a guy who long ago worked for the IRS and people would do this all the time to try and get out of paying back taxes. He just laughed because trying to outlast the IRS is an exercise in futility.

[rattlsnak]

Pretty sure 7, 11 and 13 are all he can do, so once those three are done, he's done..

[JackDidley]

This guy is just costing people a lot of money in lawyer fees, court fees and selling fees and they say he is bragging about it on social media. I also heard that the lien holders will be suing him for the excees costs.

[JackDidley]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

Pretty sure 7, 11 and 13 are all he can do, so once those three are done, he's done..

I hope this is correct. If that is the case, in about 5 weeks an auction could take place. For the record I have no personal involvement in this. The facility is the place 1 mile from my house where my friends and I have raced for 30 years. It has been closed for the last 3 years due to this. This year we drove 75 miles each way to race and get home at 1 AM or later. At my age that is almost more effort than it is worth.
It is also possible that a farmer could end up with the property and that would suck.

[rattlsnak]

Farmers can go into Chapter 12 also..

[JackDidley]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

Farmers can go into Chapter 12 also..

That will not matter if said farmer plows up the blacktop and plants beans. If it was not in a flood plane it would probably end up as a block of apartments. Deal is, we dont care who owns it if we have a place to race.

[sc_rufctr]

OT but my ex filed for bankruptcy more than 10 years ago and I still have people calling me occasionally because they can't find her.
Maybe she's still "borrowing" money??? I haven't talked to her in more than 12 years.

The last call was about 3 weeks ago. I'm expecting another before the end of the year.

[JackDidley]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

OT but my ex filed for bankruptcy more than 10 years ago and I still have people calling me occasionally because they can't find her.
Maybe she's still "borrowing" money??? I haven't talked to her in more than 12 years.

The last call was about 3 weeks ago. I'm expecting another before the end of the year.

I was given a cell phone from an employer and I guess the chick that previously had the number did not pay her bills. At random times I would get calls from collection agencies. They do not give up.

[Bill Douglas]

Well, I'd be highly pissed off if Mr John Smith 2019 owed me money, then bankrupted himself, then (Mrs. Smith) set up Mr John Smith 2020 ltd and merrily carried on like nothing had happened. And lived better than I did with new vehicles and a happy client base.

Bankruptcy laws really do need to be tightened up.

[wilnj]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Well, I'd be highly pissed off if Mr John Smith 2019 owed me money, then bankrupted himself, then (Mrs. Smith) set up Mr John Smith 2020 ltd and merrily carried on like nothing had happened. And lived better than I did with new vehicles and a happy client base.

Bankruptcy laws really do need to be tightened up.

My father was a subcontractor working for a developer in the late 80’s and this is essentially what happened.

My father, partially out of trust and partially out of a need for the work let his client run up a tab of $400,000.

One day his client was johnsmith, LLC who owed my father $400,000. The next day he was smithjohn, LLC who owed my father nothing.


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[JackDidley]

Originally Posted by wilnj

My father was a subcontractor working for a developer in the late 80’s and this is essentially what happened.

My father, partially out of trust and partially out of a need for the work let his client run up a tab of $400,000.

One day his client was johnsmith, LLC who owed my father $400,000. The next day he was smithjohn, LLC who owed my father nothing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I do not see how these guys sleep at night. Call it what you want, robbery is what it is.

[Cajundaddy]

They are totally gaming the system. I would not plan to use that facility anytime soon.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by JackDidley

I do not see how these guys sleep at night. Call it what you want, robbery is what it is.

I know of a guy who filed bankruptcy six times and made out like a bandit each time while the creditors were hung out to dry; people regard him as some sort of financial genius.

[JackDidley]

Originally Posted by widebody911

I know of a guy who filed bankruptcy six times and made out like a bandit each time while the creditors were hung out to dry; people regard him as some sort of financial genius.

When I was a kid filing bankruptcy was conscidered an embarassment. My parents were dirt poor but would never have done it. Like getting wellfare, they just did not do it.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by JackDidley

I do not see how these guys sleep at night. Call it what you want, robbery is what it is.

Back in the 1980s oil bust a lot of the people in the business were leveraged to the limit, and they just folded up and declared bankruptcy. All those bad loans is what brought down Penn Square bank and started a big banking crisis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_Square_Bank

One of my friends refused to declare bankruptcy. He sold his fancy house and his entire lifetime of assets were sold and he paid off every debt. Many of his friends told him to just walk away. He said no way. It took him many long years to get back what he lost, but no one he owed was not repaid.

[JackDidley]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Back in the 1980s oil bust a lot of the people in the business were leveraged to the limit, and they just folded up and declared bankruptcy. All those bad loans is what brought down Penn Square bank and started a big banking crisis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_Square_Bank

One of my friends refused to declare bankruptcy. He sold his fancy house and his entire lifetime of assets were sold and he paid off every debt. Many of his friends told him to just walk away. He said no way. It took him many long years to get back what he lost, but no one he owed was not repaid.

Your friend did not take the easy way out that seems so acceptible today. I have way more respect for someone like him. People have problems and fall on hard times. I get that but some just work the system and screw people over, I do not get that.