Unlimited Hydroplane Racing

[Jeff Higgins]

I was lucky enough to grow up just outside of Seattle during the real heyday of unlimited racing. I don't think I ever missed a race on Lake Washington from the time I was in a stroller (my dad was a huge fan, and even helped out on a decidedly small time, Seafair race only effort when I was little). He never missed a race until the day he died. We even drove over the mountains to see them in the Tri Cities, on the Columbia river every year. My dad was hooked, and he did his best to get us kids hooked.

My dad did not live long enough to see the end of the reciprocating engine era. The only turbine boat he had to suffer was the first one, the rather unsuccessful U-95 effort. As much as he hated Bill Muncey, he actually cheered the Atlas Van Lines driver when he ran over and darn near sank that soulless turbine boat off of Sand Point one year. He hated that boat, and said more than once that if they ever took over, it would be the end of unlimited racing as we know it.

How prophetic. Unlimited racing is currently in its death throes. Most of us blame the "vacuum cleaner" boats. Does anyone not believe that if they got back to the reciprocating engines, they couldn't make a significant comeback and attract fans once again?

Real unlimited boats, as I remember them. Granted, not full bore racing, but how glorious the sounds:

[Sooner or later]

I liked the old Allison powered boats. I was always partial to Miss Madison.

I never saw a race live but watched a lot on tv

[sammyg2]

For comparison, flying low.
Hair dryer boats don't sound cool but man are they fast.

What kind of G's do you think he's pulling in them corners?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

I liked the old Allison powered boats. I was always partial to Miss Madison.

I never saw a race live but watched a lot on tv

The Miss Madison is still being campaigned. Here is the race Sammy linked, with the Miss Madison winning the Gold Cup in front of its hometown fans and owners:

Originally Posted by sammyg2

For comparison, flying low.
Hair dryer boats don't sound cool but man are they fast.

What kind of G's do you think he's pulling in them corners?

No doubt they are faster. I think it is more down to boat design than power plant, however. One of the big advancements is the front wing between the sponsons is now a driver controlled aero device, with which he can adjust the attitude of the boat, and even prevent blow overs, to a degree.

You can see the driver manipulating the wing in the video you posted, and even more clearly in the one I added. You will also notice how long the sponsons can now be carried completely out of the water. The boat is literally "flying" above the water far more than they ever have before.

[sammyg2]

if they could take the technology they used to develop the high horsepower car engines we have today, they could develop a huge 16 or 24 cylinder engine that could make enough HP to rival the turbine engines! it would be really fast and still sound awesome too.

All it would take is a $billion or so in R&D, to start.
Who's in?

[Jeff Higgins]

There is hope, however. Jimmy King has been driving the U-3 Ace Hardware for a number of years, a very competitive Allison V-12 turbo powered boat. This team has spent a good deal of time and money on developing the Allison, and have managed to solve a lot of the reliability issues that plagued them "back in the day".

The reciprocating engine boats are allowed a bit of a weight advantage over the turbines. The big V-12 seems to pull harder out of the corners than the turbines, while giving up nothing in top speed. If only their efforts would entice other teams to explore these now well-sorted V-12's again.

[Sooner or later]

Jeff, you ever watch any sprint boat racing? I know they race up your way. Those sob's are bad to the bone. I have seen them on Mav Tv.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

There is hope, however. Jimmy King has been driving the U-3 Ace Hardware for a number of years, a very competitive Allison V-12 turbo powered boat. This team has spent a good deal of time and money on developing the Allison, and have managed to solve a lot of the reliability issues that plagued them "back in the day".

The reciprocating engine boats are allowed a bit of a weight advantage over the turbines. The big V-12 seems to pull harder out of the corners than the turbines, while giving up nothing in top speed. If only their efforts would entice other teams to explore these now well-sorted V-12's again.

Smokin!

[Fly Mach .86]

Bring back the "thunder boats"!!

[nota]

sure did sound neat

but the warehouses full of spare allisons merlins and griffons are GONE
SURE SURPLUS MOTORS WERE CHEAP AND SOUND GREAT
BUT TODAY THEY ARE RARE AND SOUGHT AFTER [for war birds and air racers]

GOLD CUP and all the miami races always went by boat
the suckers did not like salt so they stopped coming here

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Jeff, you ever watch any sprint boat racing? I know they race up your way. Those sob's are bad to the bone. I have seen them on Mav Tv.

I've watched them on TV, but never live. I didn't realize they raced up here. I'll have to see if I can locate them and go watch.

We used to have limited class boat racing right in the heart of Seattle, on Greenlake. Limited hydros, flat bottoms, tunnel hulls, etc. on an oval course, and drag boats as well. Nitro burning Top Fuel drag boats right in the middle of Seattle. It was glorious.

I cannot imagine they do that anymore. Seattle has become far too genteel. I think the noise probably shut them down a long time ago, but honestly, I have not checked.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by nota

...

but the warehouses full of spare allisons merlins and griffons are GONE
SURE SURPLUS MOTORS WERE CHEAP AND SOUND GREAT
BUT TODAY THEY ARE RARE AND SOUGHT AFTER [for war birds and air racers]

....

This is how I remember the transition to the hair dryers, too. The big Allisons were becoming scarce therefore expensive. Trying to keep up with the Miss Budweiser took pallets of folding money in large denominations. Spending it on vintage parts was soon not an option.

Best name ever for any racer, but especially an UH racer - Tom D'Eath.

[dar636]

The Unlimited Hydro's and Reno Unlimited's share many similarities. I too grew up in Seattle/Bellevue summers with the sound of the Merlin's and Griffons rumbling off in the distance waiting for Dad to let us know if were going to be able to take the boat out Friday or Saturday (never could afford Sunday) and watch the practicing.

As a old dude, I'd pay to see and hear the V12's run any day, but race? Not sure anyone's going to push those throttles up to 120+ inch MAP settings again.

I have a hangar neighbor at the Auburn airport who put himself through college working on the "Miss Bardahl" boats, from number two to five, as crew member and then crew chief. He told me the Reno guys used to contact them frequently for tech info sharing and described the differences as the boat engines were subjected to higher abuse loads. They ran small no mass props that constantly came in and out of the water and had over speed 'bursts" each time. The Reno guys were interested as the aircraft engines never experienced anything similar. He and another former crew member discovered boat number three and bought and restored her.
From the hydro museum:

"Then ex crew member Dixon Smith heard of Bardahl’s whereabouts and decided to buy it from the museum as a private owner. Smith injected nitrous oxide into Bardhal’s World War II Rolls-Merlin engine, redefining the word ‘speed. Dixon rebuilt it to run the hydroplane.

Only 30 percent of the original material was salvaged due to years of corrosion and neglect. Yet after extensive work and the help of an innovative team, Smith and three of Bardahl’s original crew, who had taken the boat out of Mission Bay in 1965, re-launched the boat on Lake Washington on July 7, 2007.



He is second from the left.

Not to hijack the post, but if you enjoy the sound of Merlins and like racing, this is as good as it gets - right to the end. Voodoo's engine didn't have another minute in it after this race:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvRmZZZEzF8

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

There is hope, however. Jimmy King has been driving the U-3 Ace Hardware for a number of years, a very competitive Allison V-12 turbo powered boat. This team has spent a good deal of time and money on developing the Allison, and have managed to solve a lot of the reliability issues that plagued them "back in the day".

The reciprocating engine boats are allowed a bit of a weight advantage over the turbines. The big V-12 seems to pull harder out of the corners than the turbines, while giving up nothing in top speed. If only their efforts would entice other teams to explore these now well-sorted V-12's again.

And that's sort of what I was getting to in a rounda bout way:
You can hop up a ford model A all you want but it's still a model A.
the Allison V12 was first developed in the early 1930s.

If they had a modern high HP version of a huge engine, the coolness factor would be over the top.
They get about 3000 hp out of the lycoming turbines. That's about the same as they are getting out of the allisons now.
Imagine if they built an unlimited hydro with two gnarly twin-turbo V-12s putting out 2000 hp each, or maybe a lightweight V16 with 4000 hp. And then built a boat big enough to handle all that power in rough water!
They wouldn't be able to print the tickets or sign up the sponsors fast enough.
We've have entire threads dedicated to how cool those modern engines would be instead of a pre-WWII museum piece.

Lets just hope they don't get stoopid and try electric or hybrid nonsense, that would certainly mean the end.

[nota]

there was a boat with 4 hemi's
but it had problems getting all the motors to run at peak

4 LS7 with turbo's would get 4000 hp and be lighter

[sammyg2]

This is in an offshore cigarette boat, twin AMG/mercedes engines putting out a total of 2700 hp. They just need to take their V12s and hop em up a bunch and clean up the packaging to make it lighter and more compact!
Iffn they could get the auto manufacturers into a horsepower war in the unlimited class........ friggin A.

[Hawkeye's-911T]

First time I saw those front engined Allison powered boats was at the Diamond Cup in Coeur D'Alene
around 1965 - sounds of which still echo in my head. A big displacement V-12 in full song is unforgettable.

Cheers
JB

[Scott Douglas]

I used to watch the big boats run down on Mission Bay when I was going to school at SDSU back in the early '70's.
I've seen the circle boats run at Marine Stadium in Long Beach too. Those guys were crazy going that fast in such a tight area with no beaches, just rocks to crash into if you lost it.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by dar636

The Unlimited Hydro's and Reno Unlimited's share many similarities. I too grew up in Seattle/Bellevue summers with the sound of the Merlin's and Griffons rumbling off in the distance waiting for Dad to let us know if were going to be able to take the boat out Friday or Saturday (never could afford Sunday) and watch the practicing.

As a old dude, I'd pay to see and hear the V12's run any day, but race? Not sure anyone's going to push those throttles up to 120+ inch MAP settings again.

I have a hangar neighbor at the Auburn airport who put himself through college working on the "Miss Bardahl" boats, from number two to five, as crew member and then crew chief. He told me the Reno guys used to contact them frequently for tech info sharing and described the differences as the boat engines were subjected to higher abuse loads. They ran small no mass props that constantly came in and out of the water and had over speed 'bursts" each time. The Reno guys were interested as the aircraft engines never experienced anything similar. He and another former crew member discovered boat number three and bought and restored her.
From the hydro museum:

"Then ex crew member Dixon Smith heard of Bardahl’s whereabouts and decided to buy it from the museum as a private owner. Smith injected nitrous oxide into Bardhal’s World War II Rolls-Merlin engine, redefining the word ‘speed. Dixon rebuilt it to run the hydroplane.

Only 30 percent of the original material was salvaged due to years of corrosion and neglect. Yet after extensive work and the help of an innovative team, Smith and three of Bardahl’s original crew, who had taken the boat out of Mission Bay in 1965, re-launched the boat on Lake Washington on July 7, 2007.



He is second from the left.

Not to hijack the post, but if you enjoy the sound of Merlins and like racing, this is as good as it gets - right to the end. Voodoo's engine didn't have another minute in it after this race:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvRmZZZEzF8

I saw that boat at the Greenwood car show. Can't remember if it was this last summer, or the one before. Absolutely stunning.

And yes, absolutely the biggest issue with the reciprocating engines is the sudden unloading and over-rev when the prop comes out of the water. They only run with the "bottom" blade in the water as it is, in other words, the prop nut is at about the water line.

The Merlin and Griffon engines would always shear the supercharger drive - that was the predominant failure mode. The turbo Allisons, not running the mechanical supercharger, never had that problem. That was, of course, not the only failure mode.

The U-3 crew have apparently solved the reliability issues. They have been at it an awfully long time, and have proven to be quite competitive. They win big races - they are not just a novelty, running on nostalgia. They are quite serious about it and honestly believe their turbo Allison to be an advantage under today's rules.

Originally Posted by sammyg2

And that's sort of what I was getting to in a rounda bout way:
You can hop up a ford model A all you want but it's still a model A.
the Allison V12 was first developed in the early 1930s.

If they had a modern high HP version of a huge engine, the coolness factor would be over the top.
They get about 3000 hp out of the lycoming turbines. That's about the same as they are getting out of the allisons now.
Imagine if they built an unlimited hydro with two gnarly twin-turbo V-12s putting out 2000 hp each, or maybe a lightweight V16 with 4000 hp. And then built a boat big enough to handle all that power in rough water!
They wouldn't be able to print the tickets or sign up the sponsors fast enough.
We've have entire threads dedicated to how cool those modern engines would be instead of a pre-WWII museum piece.

Lets just hope they don't get stoopid and try electric or hybrid nonsense, that would certainly mean the end.

These big motors are more "advanced" than a lot of people realize. Single overhead cams, four valves per cylinder actuated by rocker arms. The oddest feature of their design (I think anyway) is the cylinder banks are not staggered from one another. Opposing cylinders sharing the same rod journal are on the same centerline. As a result, they have to run the "knife and fork" setup on the big end of the rods, ala Harley-Davidson. I'm not sure that it is inherently weaker, just kind of odd. I wonder what the thinking was.

But, yeah, absolutely - if there were a modern version produced, and unlimited racing turned to them and abandoned the turbines - boy howdy, would their spectator appeal skyrocket. There certainly cannot be much of a market, unless the Reno boys jumped aboard. Even then I doubt it would be worth anyone's time and money to develop one.

[Ayles]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I've watched them on TV, but never live. I didn't realize they raced up here. I'll have to see if I can locate them and go watch.

We used to have limited class boat racing right in the heart of Seattle, on Greenlake. Limited hydros, flat bottoms, tunnel hulls, etc. on an oval course, and drag boats as well. Nitro burning Top Fuel drag boats right in the middle of Seattle. It was glorious.

I cannot imagine they do that anymore. Seattle has become far too genteel. I think the noise probably shut them down a long time ago, but honestly, I have not checked.

Looks like the Seattle Outboard Association still does racing on Silver Lake in South Everett each year. I haven't been since the early 90s but it was a good time back then and probably still is. Kind of surprising since the lake is now surrounded by apartments.