Unemployed in Idaho

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Not me. I'm the employer.

We had a temporary & part-time employee end up staying with us for about a year. He wanted "Full-Time", but we really didn't need him much longer. About a month before we planned to lay him off, he quit to go work for someone else, full time with benefits. That was late July.

Today I received a notice that he has applied for unemployment.

It looks like if he quit for "cause", aka not being able to get full time with us, then he may still be eligible for unemployment.

However, we have heard he was fired for cause from his latest employer.

If he was laid off, I think we are still partially liable for his unemployment. If he was fired, I don't think he is eligible for any unemployment.

Anyone know the labor laws in Idaho?

Crowbob · 12-02-2019, 04:11 PM

They're all private.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Going round and round like the deadly hands of a radium clock...

craigster59 · craigster59's Garage

I wouldn’t worry about it. It’s small potatoes in the business world.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

At the bottom, of the pool?

mattdavis11 · 12-02-2019, 06:03 PM

Shouldn't Texas labor laws be on your side? At will employment, he left, no unemployment benefits.

Mike80911 · Mike80911's Garage

Not sure about your state but I had an employee quit and went to work at another company. The new company he was working for went out of business and he collected unemployment from my insurance. I actually have had a few quit and collect unemployment and when I call the department of labor they could not give a shtttt

legion · 12-02-2019, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike80911

Not sure about your state but I had an employee quit and went to work at another company. The new company he was working for went out of business and he collected unemployment from my insurance. I actually have had a few quit and collect unemployment and when I call the department of labor they could not give a shtttt

This. These are bureaucrats doling out your money. They could care less about you, or applying logic to the situation. They get paid to hand out your money. The more of your money they hand out, the more successful they are in bureaucratic circles. They don't want to spend any time on any particular case, they need to hand out more of your money!

wdfifteen · wdfifteen's Garage

I’m in Ohio. I fired an employee who then filed for unemployment. Our unemployment insurance went up about $1.50 a month. It wasn’t right, but I decided not to lose any sleep over that amount of money.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

Shouldn't Texas labor laws be on your side? At will employment, he left, no unemployment benefits.

The business is in Idaho.

12-02-2019, 08:02 PM

I only know Washington law, which is probably similar. I could give you my legal assessment, but the short version is: Bend over.

Superman · 12-02-2019, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I’m in Ohio. I fired an employee who then filed for unemployment. Our unemployment insurance went up about $1.50 a month. It wasn’t right, but I decided not to lose any sleep over that amount of money.

First, consider what is at stake. $1.50 per month? If your time is worth chasing that down, then you are not as well off as I thought.

Oops. I thought this thread was in PARF. My bad.

wdfifteen · wdfifteen's Garage

^^
Not sure I’m following you here, but just to be clear. I did conclude that $1.50 a month wasn’t worth my time - I wasn’t going to lose any sleep over it. It wasn’t right - she didn’t deserve to collect unemployment benefits - but at a cost of only $1.50 I couldn’t afford the time to fight it.

MRM · 12-02-2019, 11:36 PM

No small potatoes, Idaho.

I've always thought that the animosity the general public has toward lawyers specifically and the judicial system in general is that they do not understand the legal system and they see legal outcomes as random and mysterious as when we were kids and some older kid who claimed to know all the rules would shout "out" and make it stick when we thought we hit a home run.

I don't do much UC work and I have limited experience in Idaho, but from time to time a corporate client has something like this happen and makes me handle it. I actually enjoy it because Unemployment Comp is complex enough to be interesting without being high stakes enough to be intense, and legal advocacy can often make a difference in the case. I wish I could find enough clients who had unemployment comp issues to support a practice. Unfortunately I think decent business lawyers will actually take on UC appeals for $2,500 to $3,500 flat fee. What I'm writing here is off the top of my head and should not be considered legal advice in any way shape or form. It's merely me thinking out loud and offering some insights into the legal system that you are free to ignore.

The good news (other than fierce competition of qualified lawyers for your business) is that the risks are probably lower than you think, you probably have more defenses than you may expect, and you may not need a lawyer to defend you, at least at this level. However, the only legal advice I am allowed to give you is to seek the advice of a qualified lawyer in your jurisdiction, and I certainly encourage you to do so.

Unemployment compensation is often mistaken for worker's compensation. Work comp is when an employee is injured on the job and can cover the lifetime of the employee. Unemployment compensation is to provide a safety net for people who lose their jobs through no fault of their own. Benefits are limited in time and are based on what the former employee made before termination. I think Idaho limits benefits to 52 weeks and requires proof of job searching during that time, but I'd have to look into it a little to know for sure. So at worst, you're probably into it for the insurance premiums that cover 52 weeks of whatever the guy's average weekly income was at the time of termination, assuming he can prove a valid work search for the whole 52 weeks.

From my experience, Idaho seems like a pretty well adjusted jurisdiction. Judges and bureaucrats seem to be open to common sense. Unemployment compensation is an administrative issue, meaning that it is handled first by unemployment clerks who make a determination of whether the former employee makes a claim that, if accepted as true, would qualify for benefits. The employee makes a written claim and the employer has the opportunity to make a written response. The case bounces around at that level for a bit until a higher level clerk makes a determination of whether the employee is entitled to UC payments. At that point the aggrieved party gets to make an appeal, which goes to a hearing officer. After that there is the opportunity for an appeal to an administrative law judge. Eventually you could make it all the way to the state court of appeals if someone really wanted.

If the employee is terminated for cause or quits voluntarily, but does not quit because of a "constructive discharge," he isn't entitled to UC benefits. That's usually the issue in UC appeals; whether the former employee was terminated for cause?

This case is kind of interesting because the claim seems to turn on the legal question of what benefits the former employee is entitled to when he gave up his secure job for one that that he was terminated from. If he hadn't given up the first job he'd still be employed now. So his claim is back against the first employer for the average weekly wage he was making before he was terminated by his subsequent employer. This may actually be a valid basis for a claim; I'd have to look into it, and I'd have to figure out whether termination for cause at the second employer was a valid defense to UC benefits. But even so, at the maximum he's entitled to a percentage of his average weekly wage at the first employer.

Anyway, just pay attention to the filings that come in to you, make sure you respond timely (or you'll lose your rights) and contact an attorney for advice as you think is helpful. In the meantime don't sweat it and chalk whatever it is up to the foibles of having to deal with employees and a cost of doing business.

Jims5543 · 12-03-2019, 04:05 AM

As a small business owner I have tangled with UC a few times, unless you want to lawyer up and spend a lot of money, just let it go.

I fired a drafter years ago, the reason was his production was dismal, I discovered he was running an internet company when he was supposed to be working. He was being very sneaky but not too clever.

I formally fired him with a letter outlining his infractions, had him sign off he received it etc..

He filed for UC, I contested, they sent a phone trial date, keep in mind I was too busy for this crap. I presented the letter, explained what he was doing. I did not follow some procedure I cannot recall exactly what it was at the time, I think it was not warning him and giving him chances. I explained I had expressed my concern to him about his lack of performance on the job. That was not good enough. It had to be in writing. Again, I am going from memory it was over 10 years ago.

He got his UC and I wasted my time.

By the end of 2008 my UC was pegged at max % looking back that one person really did not matter.

UC pisses me off, it is like WC, you pay in and never use it, the moment you do, punishment.

masraum · 12-03-2019, 04:16 AM

And dirtbags are always looking for easy money.

Years ago, I worked for Cisco. One of the folks that worked at the same place, started making a list of all of the customers. I think he got a list something like 10,000 customers and their details. He then tried to sell the list on ebay. He was caught and fired. He tried to claim for UC. It was granted, the company fought it, and eventually won, but it took a while and he'd already received a bunch of money, but then I guess someone had to go after him to get it repaid. I don't know all of the details.

That's messed up that the guy quit a part time job for a full time job, got fired from the full time job, but can now get paid by the part time job. That's a good gig if you can get it. Sweet, I'll have to think back to all of the jobs that I quit over the years...

KFC911 · 12-03-2019, 04:22 AM

Didn't read the whole thread....MRM is usually pretty awesome on these matters. Worst case...what's the whole total of the con's UC payout....in Utah these days? 52 weeks x $500...do the math....let it go...jmo !)

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRM

Anyway, just pay attention to the filings that come in to you, make sure you respond timely (or you'll lose your rights) and contact an attorney for advice as you think is helpful. In the meantime don't sweat it and chalk whatever it is up to the foibles of having to deal with employees and a cost of doing business.

I'm not worried one way or another. The effect of one part time employee will not be much on our rate.

Timely filing: Idaho dept of Labor sent the letter on 11/26 and is due in 7 calendar days, which is today. No issue, we will put the facts in and see what they say.

While he may have been let go due to performance, many companies will call it a lack of work and allow the employee to collect unemployment.