The Dash

[RWebb]

XKE dash - gets the basics right, but the long line of small gauges is not the best idea

long line of identical rocker switches is a worse idea

[911boost]

You don't need to worry about the toggle switches, chances are they don't operate any more! Lucas and all....

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Human factors in cars and airplanes is, beyond basic reliability, road and air manners, etc., the critical link in safety. Man/machine interface is my thing.

Cool! I was an investigator (lab technician) at WPAFB Aeromed lab in a long term study on the minimum difference between the shapes of control knobs that allows a pilot to distinguish between one control and another. The most fascinating part of the study putting them in the centrifuge and correlating the loss of peripheral vision with the loss of tactile acuity.

[RNajarian]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

. . . Human factors in cars and airplanes is, beyond basic reliability, road and air manners, etc., the critical link in safety. Man/machine interface is my thing . . .

Absolutely agree 1000%

This is the reason why I am not a fan of the Tesla dash layout. It does not appear that the instrument cluster/dash of the car was even designed by anybody who had driven a car.

No, I’m not a Tesla hater but it seems a little bit inconvenient to have to turn your head (albeit ever so slightly) to get needed information.

While driving (and looking at the road ahead) I can still see the analog gauges in my Mercedes and Porsches. These manufacturers seem to understand this in the layout of their dashes.

Having flown a little myself (Nowhere the flight hours of Seahawk) I had to constantly know the “pulse” of my machine while constantly scanning the skies for . . . ANYTHING. I’m the same way while driving my car.

I’m surprised Tesla hasn’t incorporated a HUD in their cars. Here is a shot of a HUD (Heads up display) from a C 130 J.

[smadsen]

With all the gauges, lights, knobs, read-outs, monitors, icons, levers... Who has time to actually drive the car? All you need is a big tach, oil press/water temp. And even that's a lot to manage if you're really going fast.

[RWebb]

Mazda has a HUD on their SUVs


speaking of human factors designs.... here is a great and very readable book:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Design_of_Everyday_Things

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by RWebb

XKE dash - gets the basics right, but the long line of small gauges is not the best idea

long line of identical rocker switches is a worse idea

So, if a long line of small gauges is wrong, yet a small cluster between the speedo and tach is is wrong, what do you consider right? Seems like the two most logical layouts to me.

As far as gauges themselves...for ease of reading, I think the old Stewart-Warner scheme of black round faces with white needles can't be topped. High contrast...
That's why my wristwatch is the same...black face, white hands and numbers.

Porsche nailed another thing well with the early 911...the auxillary gauges laid out so needles were horizontal when everything in the normal zone while driving. Just a glance would tell the driver all was okay.

[javadog]

So many examples of bad dashes...

Unlabeled switches, all in a row.
Labeled switches, with labels you can't see at night.
Flat glass on the instruments, guaranteeing poor vision from reflections in sunlight.
Lots of gauges with little tiny scales.
Ammeters, the old-fashioned kind.
Switches and other things you have to manipulate behind the steering wheel.

Etc.

You guys can do much better...

[Sarc]

While I fully realize the room I'm in, I've always found the 911's dash to be far from optimum. A nice place to sit? Yes of course, but I certainly wouldn't call it...ergonomically pleasing.

This was my daily view for 12 or so years. All the information I needed without obstruction, and tactile HVAC/Audio/window controls that could be implemented without taking my eyes of the road. No Tesla iPad for me thank you very much.

[javadog]

I'd say that in the 1980's BMW sedans had the best dashes. Spent a lot of time behind them.

Starting in the 1990's, Audi did a much better job, especially at night. Spent a lot of time behind those, too. My daily driver is an '03 S8, which has an excellent dash.


I'd probably still vote for Audi today, they are certainly the best of the Germans.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Cool! I was an investigator (lab technician) at WPAFB Aeromed lab in a long term study on the minimum difference between the shapes of control knobs that allows a pilot to distinguish between one control and another. The most fascinating part of the study putting them in the centrifuge and correlating the loss of peripheral vision with the loss of tactile acuity.

Cool right back at ya!

The best thing about the Comanche cockpit (dash) is that the designers really took onboard the tactile advantages of switchology, especially changing radio frequencies without looking down, the bane of most cockpits.

The challenge is that military pilot are supposed to wear Nomex gloves when they fly (I never did unless the CO, XO or an anal senior officer was with me), so shapes were very important.

I do genuinely love this stuff. In unmanned aviation systems, we are all moving to gaming based interfaces since they users have been accustomed to them for freakin' ever.

[RWebb]

I think Audi has the best interiors in general.

[RWebb]

Rolls Royce dash - dig the wood

Note the multi-gauge in a single cluster to solve the problem of scattering a large number of gauges all over the dash. One drawback is that for the ones on top and bottom you cannot quickly scan horizontally across to read them as you can with side by side gauges (proper operating conditions are supposed to have the needles all lined up with each other for this to work best).

The 911 has done this too, to good effect. Often a voltage gauge is added to form a triple cluster. Not so quick to read but you do get a gauge for that reading.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

So, if a long line of small gauges is wrong, yet a small cluster between the speedo and tach is is wrong, what do you consider right? Seems like the two most logical layouts to me.

As far as gauges themselves...for ease of reading, I think the old Stewart-Warner scheme of black round faces with white needles can't be topped. High contrast...
That's why my wristwatch is the same...black face, white hands and numbers.

Porsche nailed another thing well with the early 911...the auxillary gauges laid out so needles were horizontal when everything in the normal zone while driving. Just a glance would tell the driver all was okay.

I think his point is that the gauges shouldn't stretch over half way across the dash like in the XKE.

In the 911, the tach is central with the other gauges in fairly close proximity to either side, so still central to the driver, in theory with the less important gauges farther away from the driver's centerline.

In the XKE, the gauges stretch almost into the passenger's side of the dash.

[MysticLlama]

Originally Posted by Sarc

This was my daily view for 12 or so years. All the information I needed without obstruction, and tactile HVAC/Audio/window controls that could be implemented without taking my eyes of the road. No Tesla iPad for me thank you very much.

Still the bit being missed here is not having to do those things. Speedo on the Tesla is a quick glance, Auto HVAC works great, tactile audio/window controls on the steering wheel and door.

Just no need for a bunch of the other stuff.

This is a consistent thing that I run into with people at work that are hung up on always wanting a big report with a ton of numbers. I just want the computer to tell me what's outside of parameters, not show me a bunch of things that are absolutely normal and have me have to fish it out.

[Geronimo '74]

Originally Posted by RWebb

Originally Posted by masraum

I loved the dash in my old '88. I'm tall-ish and don't sit way back, so my view was very different from the photo above.
.

Everybody’s view is different than that dash above. (it’s not just you)
Well, everybody taller than 4 feet anyway.
That is a nice press picture but far from a real world driving view of a 911 dash.
If the bottom of the gauges is out of sight, be a midget you might.

[RWebb]

real world driving view of a 911 dash:

[masraum]

Originally Posted by MysticLlama

Still the bit being missed here is not having to do those things. Speedo on the Tesla is a quick glance, Auto HVAC works great, tactile audio/window controls on the steering wheel and door.

Just no need for a bunch of the other stuff.

This is a consistent thing that I run into with people at work that are hung up on always wanting a big report with a ton of numbers. I just want the computer to tell me what's outside of parameters, not show me a bunch of things that are absolutely normal and have me have to fish it out.

So you would prefer a digital speedo and a few idiot lights.

Sounds like hell to me.

With gauges, you can see trends that indicate things are still within normal parameters (because normal is often a range), but have changed from the way things run 99% of the time.

Also, I've got climate control, and it works well, but I still find that I change the settings based on weather trends. I don't always have it set to 70, sometimes I'll crank it down to 68, sometimes up to 72, and sometimes I change it farther outside of that range based on how I feel that day and what's going on outside.

[pitargue]

Originally Posted by RNajarian

No, I’m not a Tesla hater but it seems a little bit inconvenient to have to turn your head (albeit ever so slightly) to get needed information.

Same here.

IMHO, in a Tesla, one is a passenger, not a driver, with autopilot being the ultimate objective. In this light, vehicle info doesn't seem to be a big requirement for the passenger to know what is really going on with the transportation appliance. Just bury your head in your phone and enjoy yourself. :-)

[RNajarian]

Originally Posted by RWebb

real world driving view of a 911 dash:

Human factors and ergonomics (commonly referred to as human factors) is the application of psychological and physiological principles to the engineering and design of products, processes, and systems. The goal of human factors is to reduce human error, increase productivity, and enhance safety and comfort with a specific focus on the interaction between the human and the thing of interest. - Wikipedia

Mr. Webb, Your photo is the definition of ergonomics.