Flying/travel during covid

[dad911]

From another thread that unfortunately was turned into a trainwreck:

Originally Posted by RWebb

Flow regimes characterized

also - silk is good

https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0029767

Thank you for the link RW.

I'm flying this week, so I'll be sitting close to people I do not socialize with.

I'm thinking n95 + cloth. Also debating a face shield:

https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2020/face-shields-pros-cons.html

A recent JAMA report found that when community health workers added face shields to other protective equipment (face masks and gloves), COVID-19 infection rates among the workers dropped to zero.

Face shield an overkill? I value health over looking foolish, So I am thinking n95 + shield + sanitizer/wipes.

Mask and cv19 deniers need not respond. I have asthma, and we care for my wife's 93 YO dad, so I will take all reasonable protections available.

[Sooner or later]

I think a shield would be overkill. But will be of no harm.

[red-beard]

I picked up my sister from the Airport yesterday. Lots of people using face shields.

Definitely use an N95 or at least a KN95.

I gave my parents a mixed box of N95. A doctor's office CONFISCATED his mask, saying those are for medical professionals only. It was pretty early in this mess, and they JUST told me. I am still pissed off!

[dad911]

Thanks RB. Orderred some, at least I won't be the only.

Sooner - I was also considering tyvek disposable suit, and my cartridge paint respirator. That's overkill?

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by dad911

Thanks RB. Orderred some, at least I won't be the only.

Sooner - I was also considering tyvek disposable suit, and my cartridge paint respirator. That's overkill?

Lol

[Rick Lee]

Just make sure you always have a drink on your tray table and you don't have to wear a mask at all. What could go wrong?

[MRM]

A properly fitted n95 mask will be enough for the mask portion. An N95 fits tight to the skin and doesn't allow air flow around the seal, so you would never put a cloth mask under an N95. Putting a cloth mask over an N95 would not offer any benefit and could block your air passage. You do want to be clean shaven before you use an N95.

Eyes are an access point for the virus, but whether face shields help with that or not is irrelevant because you can get the same benefit just by wearing glasses.

KN95 masks are substantially similar to N95 masks and have been given emergency US authorization to use interchangeably. If you can find a US manufactured N95, feel free to use it. If you can only find Kn95s, don't worry. The main difference is the testing done to certify the masks' performance. KN95s use a slightly different certification process. It's really just a regulatory issue.

Fit is important with n95 masks, but it's simple to get a good fit. Just place the mask over your nose and mouth and adjust it until it feels comfortable and secure. Run your fingers up and around the edges and nose clip to make sure it's all in place. Then blow a sharp puff of air out through your cheeks. This is called the puff test. If the seal is tight your won't feel any air escaping around the seal between the mask and your face. If you feel any air escape, adjust the mask until you get a better fit, paying special attention to the nosepiece. The mask should be firmly on your face but still comfortable. If it's biting into your skin it's too tight.

If you want to be totally safe you can change your clothes and take a shower before seeing your dad. And from then on you would want anyone around him to wear an N95 around him until they've been isolated for 14 days. My family takes all available precautions and we still do not see my mother in law without the whole family wearing N95 masks.

Any type of Tyvek coverall and/or cartridge paint filter will be way overkill and probably would be too uncomfortable to tolerate during the whole trip. Just change your clothes and take a shower before seeing your dad if you're that concerned.

[stevej37]

I've flown 3 trips since Labor Day.
Each trip, on the jetway into the plane, I noticed they have signs posted ever few feet to 'follow social distancing rules'
Then into the plane, you are seated shoulder to shoulder with people who like to eat and drink during the whole flight with their masks off.

Each of the trips...both flights were totally sold out...no spacing at all.

[MRM]

It is actually quite easy to improve coth and surgical masks' effectiveness by sealing the edges of the mask. It turns out, pretty much any type of material that is used with achieve almost n95 levels of effectiveness if the edges are sealed tightly. One study built on research done on nuclear fallout during the cold war and found that a small band of nylon stocking was very effective.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/22/840146830/adding-a-nylon-stocking-layer-could-boost-protection-from-cloth-masks-study-find

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by MRM

It is actually quite easy to improve coth and surgical masks' effectiveness by sealing the edges of the mask. It turns out, pretty much any type of material that is used with achieve almost n95 levels of effectiveness if the edges are sealed tightly. One study built on research done on nuclear fallout during the cold war and found that a small band of nylon stocking was very effective.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/22/840146830/adding-a-nylon-stocking-layer-could-boost-protection-from-cloth-masks-study-find

I tried the nylon stocking method. My girlfriend said my beard irritated her thighs.

[MRM]

Originally Posted by stevej37

I've flown 3 trips since Labor Day.
Each trip, on the jetway into the plane, I noticed they have signs posted ever few feet to 'follow social distancing rules'
Then into the plane, you are seated shoulder to shoulder with people who like to eat and drink during the whole flight with their masks off.

Each of the trips...both flights were totally sold out...no spacing at all.

This configuration isn't ideal, but it's less dangerous than you think, because everyone is facing the same direction (meaning your face is protected) and the airflow is being immediately circulated into HEPA filters. The most dangerous part of the trip is loading and unloading. The safest seat is a window seat toward the back so you're set back from people going up and down the isle.

[red-beard]

Do not put a cloth mask over an N95. It restricts airflow to almost asphyxiation.

If you need to Express yourself with on N95, use a marker.

[MRM]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

I tried the nylon stocking method. My girlfriend said my beard irritated her thighs.

Try it again clean shaven and report back.

[dad911]

Good points guys. I typically grow a beard in the winter, started Nov 1st (no shave november) but what they hey, I'll shave it off.

[craigster59]

Here's a good article on mask effectiveness....

https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/

[MRM]

That compilation does not examine N95 use. The article tends to use the terms "mask" and "cloth mask" interchangeably so it's not clear they're comparing apples to apples. Also, the article just compared infection rates in areas that had mask use or mask mandates and found no significant infection difference. That doesn't meant that masks don't provide protection, it just means that if they provide protection they have to be used all the time. There are studies showing certain cloth masks don't block the virus and don't provide protection for the wearer. There are no studies that say N95s offer no protection. To the contrary, all studies show that N95 masks are effective at blocking large particle transmission, and are unable to stop only the portion of the virus that has become aerosolized.

It's clear that the virus has some component of aerosol to it, which nothing but a Hazmat level respirator would block, but it's also clear that the primary source of transmission is by large droplets. The droplets are blocked by an N95 filter even though the virus itself is smaller. The best protection available to normal people who have to go into public is a properly fitted N95 mask, eye covering, and good hygiene.

[Zeke]

What in the hell is foolish about a face shield? I see them out in public every day. I'm getting one as this thing ain't going away any time soon. I expect by this time next year we'll be more or less out of the woods. However, this is only the first pandemic of many to follow as the world gets further overpopulated and medicine is misused.

My recent round of interaction with doctors shows how ignorant and uninformed they really are. That doesn't help the situation.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Also, try out your mask before the trip. In my experience, the different types of n95's vary depending on brand. Some are relatively comfortable, some are pure torture in terms of fit.

We had 1000 n95's donated to our local health clinic. Within 5 minutes, everyone knew why. They were awful. Even with modifying straps, they were unuseable. No wonder they were a "gift"

Also, use kn95's with a grain of salt. In my experience, they are more difficult to get a seal due to the straps. They filter fine, IF you can get a seal. The straps can be cut/modified to fit more like a regular n95.

If you have a bunch of n95's go right ahead and use them. If I only had one or two for the entire trip, I would (minority opinion here ) consider wearing a type one mask over it, so long as breathing is not an issue. It won't make the mask more effective filtration wise, but it would theoretically keep it cleaner for extended use. I have/and do wear surgical mask over n95's all the time. If I had to wear the same n95 with your relatives as the one on the plane, I'd consider covering it, then ditching the surgical type mask when the flight is over. Earlier in the year, we had access to n95's with exhaust valves, so I'd cover the the whole thing with a regular mask. Not fun, but none of this is.

I would consider a face shield, but also, if you are worried, but don't want to go that far, also consider wearing a baseball style cotton hat (if they are allowed. Keeps yo' noggin' clean.) and glasses. Looks low key. From my limited knowledge, the face shield would get 95% or so of the original cough, and after a while still prevent 25% of stuff getting through, which is weird (in the long duration sense) since it is pretty much open. I think MRM is right about the shielding on a plane, it's not like you are face to face with people like health care workers are, unless boarding/ etc. I would probably wear glasses/hat, but that's just me. Perhaps an ultra lightweight windbreaker as well. I would also wear my face shield, but my only concern would be bumping into things with it. Not a huge concern, and it's interesting to hear that people are wearing them. I wouldn't worry one bit about the cool factor. As for that-

I'd wear glacier glasses from the 80's with the leather side shields!

[Bill Douglas]

It's probably more important to wear gloves than a mask.

Then dispose of the gloves and sanitize the handle of any bag you may have brought with you or anything else touched.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

It's probably more important to wear gloves than a mask.

Then dispose of the gloves and sanitize the handle of any bag you may have brought with you or anything else touched.

That's the other thing. Everyone seems to pay all sorts of attention to the masks, and then completely disregards hand hygiene. I think everyone latched onto the "primarily spread through the air" and that has caused many to ignore direct/ indirect contact.