Hub Centric vs Lug Centric Wheels

[DonDavis]

Looking at some aftermarket wheels for my '96 Sub Outback.
Factory wheels are hub centric.

Full disclosure, I've not messed with many aftermarket wheels, essentially stayed with factory over the years.

One wheel I'm considering is the Bassett steel, 15x7. Those are lug centric.



Am I correct that as long as I use matching lug hole angle lugnuts, and I properly torque them, I'll be fine?

Also considering the Method 502 wheel. I think that one is hub centric.

[asphaltgambler]

No. All OE wheels are hub centric including the rear wheels on my 1991 John Deere 430. Being hub centric the wheels automatically are 'true' with the axle hub as well as distributing the load radially. The studs / bolts are designed to clamp the wheel laterally.

By using a wheel that is not the correct hub centric, you place all the load on the wheel studs which is not what they were designed for. Further, the wheel / tire assy will very likley have radial runout.

There are a few companies that make hub centric spaces where it matches the difference between axle hub OD and wheel center bore ID, to take care of this problem.

[Adrian Thompson]

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

There are a few companies that make hub centric spaces where it matches the difference between axle hub OD and wheel center bore ID, to take care of this problem.

They wont work with lug centric wheels. The bore on lug centric wheels wont be machined to a close enough tolerance and will make things a whole lot worse.

[javadog]

Wheels that depend upon the lugs for centering are a crime against the principles of engineering.

[fastfredracing]

Some of the older medium duty trucks used lug centric wheels. Like split rims, and rings were not dangerous enough.
I swear , that I remember a few cars that centered on the lugs, or wheel bolts, but I cannot remember what models they were . I can remember thinking " that is weird "
You can get plastic or metal rings, to make aftermarket wheels fit any hub. I have even custom ordered them before .

[RWebb]

ok, I gotta ask....

if you have a '96 Sube, I assume it is a beater - so why new wheels?

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by fastfredracing

I swear , that I remember a few cars that centered on the lugs, or wheel bolts, but I cannot remember what models they were . I can remember thinking " that is weird "

I own three of them.

[DonDavis]

That's great info. I knew most of the differences, but was more curious about the use of lug centric wheels.

I'm ruling out the Bassetts, will search for the Methods.

Originally Posted by RWebb

ok, I gotta ask....

if you have a '96 Sube, I assume it is a beater - so why new wheels?

That's an excellent question. While this car has over 300k miles, it was very well maintained throughout its life, with no accidents, has some very minor door dings, original paint, etc.

Everything works. Interior has such minimal wear/tear. Seats are perfect.

See here for when I bought it in 2017. My Craigslist Subaru score

Since then I've replaced the struts all around, rotors/pads, pulled the engine and did timing belt, h2o pump and a buttload of gaskets, and replaced the shifter bushings, replaced the entire steering assembly.

Engine is original, but runs soooo good. No smoking, no oil use.

Last summer I went over the $2100 dollar investment...total...including the purchase price of $600, by having the windows tinted.

Clapped out Subies are everywhere. Super clean original are like hens teeth.

Local indie shop said "Wow, never sell that car, harder and harder to find ones that haven't been hacked to death or have serious rust."

Mine has zero rust whatsoever.

I really like this car. And it's the first year Outback. I'm not saying it's a collector by any stretch of the word. But I think it's worth hanging onto.

And if it craters or I stuff it into a rock wall, I'm only out a couple grand.

What's not to like?

[DonDavis]

Spoke with Method. They say I’d need the MR502 VT-SPEC.
Also said it’d sit about 1” further out.

My factory 15/6 has a 5.75” backspace, the 502 has a 4.6”.
Sounds like even a stock tire size would rub the fender lips.

Thoughts?

[fastfredracing]

Tire rack web site, is awesome to look at wheels, specs, and how they will look on your vehicle . You can figure out what size, and offsets you want .

[A930Rocket]

Check out this wheel offset calculator. I used it when I got wheels and tires for my F150.

https://tiresize.com/wheel-offset-calculator/

More options.

https://tiresize.com

[DonDavis]

Ok, I went with 15/7 Method wheels, Yokohama Geolandar 205/70/15.

So far, so good. I'm going to goof around in the dirt later today. You know, since I washed it yesterday. Seems logical.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by fastfredracing

Tire rack web site, is awesome to look at wheels, specs, and how they will look on your vehicle . You can figure out what size, and offsets you want .

Still, you must question their math. I had to do that to get the right sized rear tires for my Cayman S. Now that I have the tire/ wheel combo figured out, I will go back to my local shop, which gives far better service. I only used Tire Rack to calculate the dizzying wheel size/ offset/ tire aspect ratio and width. I used 911 wheels in back and Cayman S wheels in front. Came out really fantastic.

[Arizona_928]

That's not too much of an offset, any more and you will chip the **** out of your paint on the fenders, Kick out rocks (break mirrors), ect ect.

Looks good btw

[mistertate]

Cool car

[billybek]

I had put Geolanders on my wife's old Nissan X-Trail.
Great tires. Good on snow and pretty quiet on the road.

[DanielDudley]

Old Subarus did not come with hub centric wheels. The factory rims had huge holes in them. Old VW rims did not even have a wheel center. For these wheels, it isn't the shear strength of the bolts that holds the wheels in place but the friction of the wheel against the hubs created when torquing down the lug bolts. You need to cinch them up slowly and evenly to center the wheels.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

Old VW rims did not even have a wheel center. For these wheels, it isn't the shear strength of the bolts that holds the wheels in place but the friction of the wheel against the hubs created when torquing down the lug bolts. You need to cinch them up slowly and evenly to center the wheels.

The wheels on old VWs and 356 Porsches are held in place by tapered lug nuts (Porsche - on the right) or tapered lug bolts (VW - on the left). Radial and axial positioning is done by the tapers on the bolt/nut against a matching taper on the wheel. So the bolt/lug hold the wheel in place through shear and also tension.
I tighten them carefully, in stages, in a cross pattern, but I don't recall that being a factory recommendation.

[DonDavis]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

Old Subarus did not come with hub centric wheels. The factory rims had huge holes in them.

What year are you referring? Because mine clearly falls into the “old” category being 24 years old. The factory wheels are hub centric, including the temporary spare.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

The factory lug nuts have a 60° angle similar to the nut on the left above.