Drove a Civic Type R
 

For whatever reason I've been somewhat fascinated with the Civic Type R for quite some time. Yes it's ugly, maybe I read too many copies of Sport Compact Car as a teenager, or maybe it's the magazine test that referred to it as a 911 GT3 hatchback. Anyway, one popped up recently at my local Carmax so I decided to give it a go.

The basics: 2018 with 6k, amazingly dirty and beat up considering the mileage. Maybe it's just my Carmax but damn their cars are crap. Barely detailed, frequently with dents, dings, scratches, stains, dog hair, smelly interiors, etc. For all their hype about reconditioning I'm not ever impressed. At least they ask high retail for all of their cars. But I digress.....

Starting with the styling, I actually don't mind the vents and wings because it's actually functional. What really got me was the interior. While it's typical Honda quality (but not luxury), the random smatterings of red everywhere was just really tacky. It's super functional, well equipped, the seats are super comfy and supportive, but I'm not sure I could look at that interior every day. People love to say that you can't see an ugly car from behind the wheel, but you sure as hell can see the ugly interior. Otherwise the driving position is spot on, pedals are great, steering wheel is well shaped and nice and thick, shifter is fantastic, back seats are usable, hatchback area is big, and it would be easy to live with daily from a functional perspective.

I went to drive the R because, well, I wanted to see how it drove. Ultimately it was a mixed bag. Starting with the good, the suspension is a magic carpet ride. Seriously the best adjustable and adaptive setup I've driven, way better than my E63. Even in R mode it is very well damped and controlled, tight and responsive but never harsh. Steering and turn in is fantastic as well, very immediate. But even with the LSD and trick front suspension, you never forget it's FWD. Torque steer is minimal, but it's easy to get wheel spin with even moderate throttle application in corners. Yes it was about 50 outside and it had summer tires, but even at 90 degrees I suspect you could still get wheel spin. Brakes are fantastic, very Porsche like with a firm pedal but progressive and not grabby. Steering is very accurate and the wheel communicates well by modern car standards. The shifter is very very very good, one of the best I've experienced. The auto rev match downshift is a fun gimmick that I would probably turn off just for the sake of challenging myself. With all that said, I probably would have still been smitten if it weren't for the engine.

It's not that the engine is bad, it's smooth and has good punch. But it never feels special, and you never forget that it's a turbocharged 4-cylinder. There's a little bit of lag down low, nothing you couldn't live with, then a strong turbo surge all the way to redline. It sounds ok, but pretty standard. This car had a loud exhaust that was crap, which didn't help matters. My biggest knock is that it just didn't feel special.

I bought an E63 for my wife about three months ago, and it still gives me a goofy grin on my face every time I hit the gas pedal. It's fun, it's special, and it doesn't get old. Oh yeah and it was way less money, albeit for a 2010. To me that's the biggest knock on the Type R, it's a really good car but I was hoping for special. That bar is different for everybody, but for me it's just not quite there. Sad, because I was hoping it could be a good daily driver for me. Maybe I should just get a C63 to keep my wife's E63 company and call it a day?:D

I've thought of the Civic type R.

My first order of business would be to take a hack saw to the rear wing.
Then perhaps sawzall the front splltter off.

What was the asking price?

I friend at work bought a 2019 Type R and loves it. It's that loud blue color - just like his previous DD (RX-8) that he still drives now and then. I am sure it's really sweet to drive however I can't get past the outrageous styling. Far too pimp for me.

Matt, you mentioned functional vents...from what I can tell the large corner vent panels are sealed?

I thought the engine would have been more impressive than that. I've always been a bit of a civic fan.

no possible way a 40k honda compares to a 90k german car, not fair.

Totally true, but the Civic was $34k and my E63 was under $30k. I don’t really care about fair, it’s more money for a car I like less. That’s about all I care about.

As for the body stuff, apparently the hood scoop routes air over the engine and out the fender vents, I think it reduces drag and lift. I’ve seen a few guys who have swapped over the standard Civic hatchback upper panel to eliminate the wing, it looks ok but a little naked.

It would be a great car for a rat rod. Do the wing, do the splitter, spray some fake rust on the plastic body panels and it would look like a POS and worthy of being a rat rod.

Excellent write up

I love a hot hatch, but that thing is:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1580520048.jpg

Type R too boy racer styling for me personally. My wife have the Accord sport 2.0 turbo. Fun car for the money.

A sleeper version of the Civic with all the R working bits would be great.

I have a '17 Civic EX and it's a fantastic car.

Nice write-up OWP.
I think I've read almost every car mag review of the Type R since it came out. They all say the same thing...the performance is outstanding. The exterior looks..not so much.
If they offered a toned-down looking Type R, I would surely be interested.
Having owned numerous Honda's, I know the quality and reliability would be there.
They should have revived the Prelude for the body style.

Where are you driving where you're breaking traction on your front wheels on public roads?

Great review Matt, I have no comment on the Civic but will add it's not just your Carmax.. I like to go drive interesting cars there as well because it's a no drama test drive like at most dealerships. 10 years ago the lot was full of clean rides... now a bunch of beat up dirty rides. I assume they learned most buyers don't know/care the difference between a clean ride and a beater. It will be a beater in their hands in no time anyway?

x10

The R is too much $$ for me and I really dont like a 4 dr. The SI is great, except for the sunroof, need more headroom. Really impressive, its a civic!

Now go drive the Golf R. It's a couple hundred pounds heavier than the Honda, but it is seriously a good car, sleeper exterior, Audi quality interior (except manual passenger seat).

Relax mom, this was all at or under the speed limit. In a powerful FWD car it’s not hard to do.

Having driven both the Si and Type R, for the money I’d rather have an Si and then tune it to get rid of the rev hang. The Si is a very good package for a great price.

My problem is I don’t trust VAG long term reliability. But I’m sure it’s a great car.

Not enough passenger legroom (CRV has the same issue).
And I'm only 5'10" :(

Wow! Really? Is that a normal price for that sort of thing? Did you buy a car that needed something that you knew that you could easily fix so you got a deal or buy wholesale or...?

People are irrationally afraid of the 6.3's due to some early production issues.
But still, 30k is a great deal.

How many miles on the E63?

Used Benz are an incredible bang for the buck. That’s how I ended up with 3 in the garage.

They have terrible resale and continue to depreciate down to almost nothing, (modern Benzes), but there is a reason and it's maintenance costs. Still, if you do all of the math and it still works out, they are great cars. Safest car=best car, IMO. :cool:

If you’re prepared to turn wrenches and DIY, maintenance doesn’t have to be crazy expensive. Most people don’t, and the used prices reflect that. For DIY types, there is tremendous value available...IMO. It seems we agree on this point.

Mercedes parts prices are ludicrous, unless you buy generic crap from China, which I won't do.

As for the Civic Type R, it's a Honda. Nothing wrong with those for use as an appliance but they never have the solid, well-engineered feel of a German car. Even if they got rid of all of the boy racer crap, the engines are never big enough to provide useful power and their inability to put power down onto the road will always be limited by their FWD.

No thanks.

Could be just about anywhere. The Civic R has 300hp and 300ftlbs, and it's front wheel drive. The weight may be over the front tires, but on acceleration, the weight transfers to the rear. I've found that most of my FWD vehicles (which were usually economy cars with little power) could easily break traction.

My boxster with 300hp and 250ftlbs and the weight nearly over the tires also easily spins the tires.

Same problem I had...rev hang with my Honda.
The Sprint throttle controller took care of it easily.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1047444-sprint-booster-v3.html

Maybe I have the “wrong” Benz cars, or maybe I am desensitized to parts cost from playing with Porsche cars, but I haven’t found the costs to be excessive on my MBZs. I buy mostly from FCP Euro and they have OE supplier parts, often German made or other European origin, depending on the specific item.

I was wondering the same thing.
Don't Benz share OE makers with BMW and Porsche?
Bosch, Lemforder, Sachs, etc.
Their prices are perfectly reasonable tome.

I don’t want to spend all day discussing the parts business but I’ll mention a few things. Just because a company is what they call an original equipment manufacturer does not mean they make a particular part for that manufacturer. You cannot always assume that parts are made to the same standards or pass the same quality checks. You also cannot assume that a branded part, new in the box isn’t a counterfeit part. Believe it or not, those exist, I’ve personally received a Bosch branded part that was a counterfeit. When you buy a part through a dealer network, you know you’re getting what you paid for because there’s some integrity in the supply chain. It may still be a bad part, I can think of a couple examples of Porsche parts that were junk, even though they came through the dealer parts network. When you buy a part from an aftermarket supplier, you have no idea what, exactly, you are getting. It might be great, it might be junk.

Caveat emptor, it’s your money, not mine.

Nothing amazing, you can find W212 E63s for under $30k all day long. Lots of car for the money.

I also disagree with the comment about parts costs but agree with Jacob and others, I buy from online vendors. I can’t tell you the last time I wasted my money buying a Mann filter in a Mercedes box for triple the price.

Works for me.
I load my cart at Rock Auto and make sure all the items come from one warehouse (to keep the shipping cost down) and voila good prices on maintenance items consumables):

https://scontent.fhou1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...15&oe=5EC75D30

Agree, filters and belts are affordable. I've run into a long list of issues with the more complicated issues. Seat motor or switch or what about a side mirror that gets knocked off in the parking lot? Once you stomach the $$ you then realize you cant just swap in the new part, need the software to initialize it. Similar issue with headlights, foglights and so on. Most folks I know dont realize the $$ involved in such parts. I can swap in a new light assembly but then it looks weird and they want them both done. benz is a status simple for many so it needs to look the part. Dont look at the dash, often lit up like a christmas tree.

I’m probably going to buy one of the STAR computer knockoffs that you can get on EBay. Gives you dealership level of OBD and programming for under $500.

Curious... did you ever sell that C208 you mentioned here a couple years back? Black with black/crime interior if I recall correctly.

Have one, its invaluable.

There's a nice salvage title c63 on fleabay now for 17k.

Matt, when you obtain that Star knock-off can you please let me know if it will do the W454 Smart For Four from 04-06.

Matt, have you driven a Neon based SRT-4 and if so, how does it compare?

That was the last FWD hot hatch I drove in anger and for the price was a pretty capable car.

I think you guys missed a big point.

The only reason I would buy a Civic (Type R, Si, etc.) is that they still come with a manual transmission (and hatchback). No MB or Audi still does. BMW discontinued the manual in the 3-series. My next car will likely be an M2, purely because it comes with a 6-speed. I currently have an Mini Cooper Countryman S All4 Pro Max Lite only because it was an AWD car with a stick.

Yes, I'm a Luddite.